Arthur Hu's Norman Matloff page
How to Contact / See Norm Matloff's Materials
No man has been more authoratatively quoted by the anti-immigration lobby, or poses a greater threat to Asian and even Jewish immigrants and immigration. His columns have been printed by the New York Times, Computer Source, Computer Source Magazxine, LA Times, San Francisco Chronicle, US News and World Report, National Review, Sacramento Bee, New Democrat, Electrical Engineering Times, The Public Interest, Asian Week, Center for Immigration Studies. His data has been referred to by Debra Saunders of the SF Chronicle, Michelle Malkin of the Seattle Times, Richard Estrada of the Dallas Morning News, Yeh Yeh Ling of the Carrying Capacity Network. He has one of the most linked-to sites on the world wide Web, including US News and World Report, CNN and other sites. He has testified before congress, and spoken at immigration forums held by Hoover Institution and others. There have been almost no direct rebuttals of any of his positions published by any newspaper or magazine.
His report on immigrants in Silicon Valley is nothing but an academically veiled and vicious racist attack on what are the most disproportionately important ethnic groups in Silicon Valley, if not the entire US. Indeed, the Chinese and Indians are the only American ethnic groups that can rival the quality and achievements of the Jewish Americans, of which Norm is a member of, in technical fields. The last time some body tried to prove that a group with as high achievement as the Jews were inferior, Hitler was trying to justify the Holocuast.
He discounts obvious data such as the overwhelming representation of Asians in engineering schools, science and math awards, significant achievements, and higher pay and education and test scores. In an age when American educators are turning to Asia and its superior academic performance, Mr. Matloff calls Asian education "harmful". Instead, he choses to "prove" that immigrants are culturally inferior, racist, underpaid, and implies that high tech would in fact be better without them. Indeed, he even slams the most successful companines, Intel and Microsoft which hire immigrants as "harmful to innovation" even though they deliver 90% of the world's desktop computers and software.
He completely discounts the effects of cultural discrimination on advancement and awards which go disproportionally to whites and natives rather than Asians. If it were Jews or African Americans being discredited, it would certainly be called racist or anti-semitic, but Mr Matloff evidently believes only blacks and Jews deserve protection against defamation.
Mr Matloff faults employers for hiring inferior immigrants. But then he dismisses superior skills and education of immigrants by stating that any programmer can pick up SQL, Microsoft Windows 95 and Visual C++ and 3D programming in 30 days. He openly proclaimed that a "Cindy" with no marketable skills was perferable to a Canadian with years of experience in image processing programming, and that Cindy could pick this up in only two weeks. Programmers don't need advanced or even a bachelors degrees in computer science, and that no skills listed on a resume constitute valid hiring criterion, saying that unemployed defence workers with 10 year old skills are better qualified than immigrants out of school trained in Windows and C++. He says that industry should be hiring more people like "Cindy" with no marketable skills or experience, yet devalues the contributions of Andrew Grove, CEO of Intel, or Jerry Yang, co-inventor of Yahoo. No employment department or placement agency agrees with Matloff on this position which he takes with zero evidence or support. He cites a microsoft manager who says that qualifications are "nice", but that's not the same as saying that qualifications have zero weight.
He deflects criticism of being a racist by defending African American and resident Asians, and saying he is married to a Chinese immigrant. Yet every piece that he writes is critical of Chinese and / or Hispanic immigrants. He claims that Asians are inferior, exposes scandal after scandal, says they take jobs from American engineers, and have made no important contributions, and is critical of Asians culture as authoratorian and barbaric.
He has nothing but contempt for corporate America as a pack of criminals, instead of the key to our world leadership and high stadard of living. He attempts to quote pro-immigration Bill Gates, Ron Unz and myself, who are pro-immigration on why we don't need immigrants.
On affirmative action, he is in favor of a crazy lottery system to get around the uncomfortable fact that merit admits too many Asians and too few blacks, even though such as system both lowers standards and fails to achieve proportionality, it would result in lower numbers of blacks than conventional racial preferences, and lower number of Asians in a normal merit based system with racial preferences for the under-represented.
No education is required for any programming job. Not a masters. Not a bachelors. Not a high school diploma. 1/10/97 "Though you laugh at the prospect, it is TRUE that no education at all is required. Many people in the industry, including many very prominent ones, have no formal training in computer science at all."
"Scientists and engineers are no more talented than persons in other fields, it's absurd to assume that". Fact - it's easy to show that scientists and engineers have the highest non-management salaries of any non-professional degree, and have the highest SAT scores.
Nearly all elderly Asians are welfare cheats and the only way to stop it if congress doesn't have the guts to cut them off is to stop elderly Asian immigration. No Asians would sponsor their parents if they knew they could not collect SSI.
But SSI is a drop in the bucket compared to Social Security and Medicare that threaten to break the budget. Asians are only 6% of SSI, and Asians are a disproportionately small percentage of the population. If anything, working age Asians are saving SS and medicare. Since Social Security is paid by current workers and sponsors do pay into Social Security, it would be more fair to add elder immigrants to Social Security to offset the very small percentage of elderly compared to the white population instead of rooting out every Chinese collecting meager SSI payments. Most upper middle class Asians can afford to support their parents and would still sponsor them to reunite families, SSI is NOT a maget since very few elderly choose to come because of cultural adjustments.
Legally its not cheating because the INS pledge is that they will not likely become charges, there is no way to prove that the sponsors might find out they can apply for SSI in the future and change their minds about support, and it is not legally binding. It's not fraud in the sense that enforceable rules have been broken.
Studies show that programmers can become productive in a new software technology in a month or so (this is confirmed by my own personal experience, in 25 years of keeping up with technological change in the industry). The 2nd major factor in the large % of immigrants is that misguided employers have placed an unwarranted emphasis on hiring people with very highly specific skill sets, thus creating an artificial labor ``shortage.''
Matloff is making the absurd statment that companies should not require degrees, or any specific skills, despite the nearly universal industry practice of doing so. In other words, companies should hire the first people who show up at the door without comparing credentials, and favor unemployed aerospace engineers without any relevant experience over immigrants who match their exact needs.
Every company gets five to ten times as many resumes as there are openings. That doesn't mean there is a surplus if they aren't satisfied with the quality of the first 5 resumes that show up as Mr. Matloff effectively claims. Only in such a world would it make sense to keep immigrants out, but nobody hires that way, not even Mr. Matloff.
No hiring manager in a real company agrees with Matloff's statement that any technology can be learned in 25 days. although Matloff pretends to be an authority. In a competitive marketplace it is not neccesary to settle for just any programmer that has to be trained for 30 days when you can hire somebody off the street who already knows HTML or Microsoft Visual C++. It does not occur to Mr. Matloff that perhaps 33%-40% of the best qualified and most talented people happen to be immigrants. Sure you could replace them with citizens, but at the expense of removing 33%-40% of the best applicants at random, which will have a dramatic effect on the quality of the remaining people, since you'll have to lower your standards to get the same number of bodies.
Without such easy access to hiring of foreign nationals, more companies would be forced to recruit at these schools, giving Asian-Americans and others more and better job opportunities.
Mr. Matloff is deflecting his anti-Asian sentiments by pitting immigrant Asians vs. legal residents and citizens. This statement has absolutely no statistical foundation as all immigrants together compose only 30% of the competition, and new immigrants from any year in particular probably less than 5%. Reducing or even eliminating all new immigration not measurably increase opportunities for Asian Americans, but only reduce opportunity for potential Asians who wish to become Americans. The very people Matloff claims to defend would have been excluded had his view been implemented 20 years ago. A similar argument would be that segregating poor underclass blacks into ghettos would in fact be beneficial to middle class blacks who are already integrated in the suburbs.
Arthur: If they abandoned this policy (selecting students with the best grades and test scores), it would destroy every examinatin high school and every selective college. They couldn't be called selective any more.
Norm: Once again, what would be so terrible about that? I just don't get it. (That would be like having the SF 49s select players at random instead of picking the best qualified.)
- Virtually no jobs in the computing field require graduate work, in response to the high percentage of advanced degrees going to immigrants.
80% of Cypress semiconductor engineers have advanced degress - a waste of money and talent he says, and he does not include job descriptions which include degrees. Industry surveys in EE Times show advanced degrees pay more as well. He claims no job requires even a bachelor's degree. In theory, since even high school students are capable of productive programming, not even a high school diploma is a valid requisite for a job opening. He ignores that the probablity of finding better people improves among people with a higher degree, and they get paid more.
- The computer industry does not need to hire large numbers of foreign nationals because the vast majority of major technical advances made in the industry have been made by U.S. natives, not immigrants. Cited by Yeh-Yeh Ling in Seattle Times, an Asian who opposes Asian immigration.
He includes Intel, Sun, Microsoft, and every other leading computer with immigrant founders or key employees to be non pivitol. In fact, Matloff believes "Intel not only was not indispensable to the industry, its selection by IBM for the PC has actually hurt the industry." despite the fact that it is largely responsible for the masss standardization of the PCs in the office and home as a viable industry. His only reason to downgrade such people and vital milestone products is to downgrade immigrants, and to make the superior appear to be inferior.
- False idustry claim: The computer industry pays immigrants the same as it does natives. Census data indicate that in the Silicon Valley, immigrants are paid on the order of 15% less than natives. Cited by Richard Estrada of the Dallas Morning News (a Hispanic who opposes Hispanic immigration)
This is blatantly incorrect in his original report, and only marginally less so now that he has included the fine -print that education has been equalized - the average immigrant engineer has much more education and advanced degrees. _Most_ studies, which Matloff conveniently omits even after he has been informed of their existence, including the anti-immigrant CIS study and NSF have found that nationally, most immigrant groups are paid more than natives.
They are more educated, and the math SAT scores of immigrants is higher than natives, a better indication of quality than possibly biased ACM innovation awards. A very high percentage of immigrants have very high incomes, again, a much more accurate measure of worthy innovations.
- Immigrants don't really create jobs, and only hire their own.
Matloff told me of a friend who was laid off from Everex, a firm founded by Chinese, yet claims that Chinese don't create jobs. Then he has the nerve to complain that the only company that would hire him was another Chinese owned company. Here are two jobs that supposedly don't exist that saved his friend, who was probably also Chinese. Studies in fact show that personal references are the most effective way to get good employees, when Matloff claims that this practice harms the industry when Chinese choose their own friends. He does not recognize that the largest exclusive network is among native white men. When black business routinely hire predominantly black staffs, it is postive, but for Asians, this is not allowed.
- Of computer professionals in the Silicon Valley who had immigrated in the five years prior to the Census, 76% were Chinese, but this doesn't mean they are any more important vital to the industry than Indian motel owners. The high % of immigrant engineers and immigrants winning the Westinghouse awards in no way proves they are more skilled on the average than natives.
Matloff in his weighing the abilities of groups completely ignores the gross over-representation of Chinese and Indians in silcon valley. It is useless to compare the 20th percentile Indian engineer with a 90th percentile White engineer when even the lowest Indian engineers is better than the huge proportion of whites who are not even engineers in the first place. Matloff recognizes that 90% of farm labor is immigrant, but also advocates that the US does not need immigrant farm labor either.
Logically, this is like saying that African Americans have made no notable contributions to basketball or American music, or that Jews have made no essential contributions to film, finance, music or publishing, or that East Europeans have made no important contributions to ice skating in arguing that no more should be allowed to immigrate, or even that Europeans have made no important contributions to US culture. He is basically contorting logic to attempt to prove that a group that is important is not important.
- Cultural Impediments to Innovation Among the Immigrants. Foreign nationals are culturally disinclined to innovate, and aren't the best and brightest. Even Arthur Hu said the lower paid immigrants aren't as good. Asia tends to produce workers who are not innovative, are not good at problem solving, need excessive amounts of supervisory help, " result in reduced levels of technical abilities among the Chinese computer professionals, relative to those of other groups." The rote-memory approach to learning--called tian yazi, ``stuff the duck'' in Chinese--simply is not conducive to technical innovation. Matloff even dismisses the huge percentage of chinese immigrants who win the Westinghouse Science Talent Search.
It is a racist statement to categorize all immigrants as not being innovative, as the long list of immigrants who have made important innovations in companies shows, and the fact that nearly every important corporation in the US has immigrants in key positions, if not the founder. It would be just as racist to argue against the employment of African Americans on the basis of their lower average math test scores. No one is an average. My position is that many immigrants aren't paid as much and aren't as good, but that's not all immigrants, and the average immigrant makes more than the average native. Matloff convenient dismisses all evidence of Asian superiority over the general population to prove that group which is far better than average per capita is somehow worse.
Just because the average Chinese on the planet probably only has a 5th grade education doesn't mean that you won't get some of the best people on earth by the time you pick out the top .001%. You have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince. It's self defeating to artificially limit the pool in an attempt to protect another racial group. If you excluded Jews, Germans, Catholics or even African Americans, a group with a significantly lower level of average quality, it would still result in a reduction in quality because you would still miss the best of the pool, regardless of what the average is.
There is something to be said about going beyond rote-memory, but you won't even get into engineering unless you master rote-memory learning, which is why Asians are 15 times their population compared to whites at MIT, and half of Berkeley enginering students. Even if the average Asian were weaker, it would not make the number of Asians at the very top zero, and Matloff ignores the problem of discrimination and a glass ceiling which penalizes persons from different cultures, regardless of talent
- Software piracy is worse in the US than in China. Yeah, we've got more computers here, but we spend billions on software and steal only a tiny part of it. In China, the overwhelming part of software is distributed for free or close to it.
- There is no connection between the quality of an institution and its test scores, therefore students should be selected at random above a minimum cutoff
\doc\web\96\07\matlott.txt Why Not a Lottery to Get Into UC? Los Angeles Times Op-Ed January 24, 1995 Norman Matloff : Matloff claims that test scores don't matter use a lottery below a cutoff.
Such as scheme, as was determined by a committee in San Francisco neither insures excellence, as the test scores of the resulting class will be the average of all applicants instead of the highest X students. It won't insure diversity because typically under-represented students are just as under-represented among the minimally qualified. So you will get a class with lower test scores, and still have minorities a fraction of their population because even a lower score won't significantly increase their percentage of the qualified pool. The most common method of selection is the take the highest scoring minority applicants up to the desired percentage, even if their scores are lower than whites / Asians.
The only way to create an excellent school as measured by student test scores is either to put the school in an affluent or well educated location, or to select the best from a large diverse district and concentrate them in one school. There are NO schools with high test scores which do not fall into one category or another. The lowell method is the ONLY way to create a world class school in a city with a substantial amount of poverty.
-"There is no significant difference between UC campuses and the mean in SAT scores"
UCB - UC Irvine = 88 pts, or 44 pts between center and extremes UC Irvine - CA Average = 57 pts State Average - Oakland = 72 pts To get a 50% chance of admission into UC Davis requires only a combined 650. To get into Berkeley, you need 1300.This is part of his "there is no such thing as merit or credentials except what think" theory. Matloff does not accept that there is any differnce between the top 5% and top 15% of SAT scores, or that in the least competitive UC campuses, even a score in the bottom ranges has a 50% chance of admission, but nearly zero at the top schools.
- Students should be assigned randomly between UC campuses rather than ranked by academic ability
- College quality is deterimined by research quality, not student test scores
"Solomon and Tabuman  demonstrate that high income is related to college quality, as measured by average student SAT score and family salary.. the effect of college quality is reater for more able students" Robert Klitgaard Choosing Elites p. 212. US News roughly ranks best colleges by SAT scores, though not abosolute, it has a high weight.
- Jews are not especially talented in the computer industry see Matloff uses ACM awards to prove that Chinese have no talent, but he did not count the 25% of Turing Awards that went to Jews. How can you say that having no awards is proof of no talent and then dismiss the remarkable score for the Jews?
\clip\96\03\afaclang.txt 12 Aug 1996 Appeals Court Reverses Lower Court's Decision By JOHN HOWARD Associated Press Writer Opponents want to force Prop 209 to say that it will ban affirmative action, but the language will NOT ban affirmative action which does not prefer or discriminate, and state Supreme court agrees.
Nobody's head of this guy???
A Partial List of Who has quoted or printed Norman Matloff:
new from the CIS Center, "A Missed Opportunity: Pro-Industry Report
Defends 'Temporary' H1-B Visa Usage, Fails to Deal with Fact that It Will
Be Permanent," by Norman Matloff, a professor of computer science at the
University of California at Davis. This Backgrounder critiques last year's
report from the National Research Council on the H-1B visa program and
concludes this way:
>>All sides of the H-1B controversy agree that the high-tech field is one
>>of the top bright spots in our economic future. An impartial,
>>well-executed study of the high-tech labor market conducted at the
>>request of the U.S. Congress would have been quite useful. Unfortunately,
>>what the NRC presented to Congress was biased and highly selective, and
>>ducked the tough questions about future trends. Rather than shedding
>>light on this vital issue, it will add to the confusion.
The backgrounder is on line at:
'High-tech firms ask Congress to up foreign worker limits' By Finlay
Lewis COPLEY NEWS SERVICE July 4, 1999 " And another critic, Norman
Matloff, a computer scientist at the University of California Davis,
has made available an extensive critique of the program on the
MATLOFF CALLED "LEADING VOICE"
\clip\99\13\techwk.txt Where are the Workers? by Edward Frauenheim
TechWeek (biweekly Silicon Valley magazine), June 28, 1999
" The "shortage" crisis is largely a scare tactic to drive down
wages, contends Norman Matloff, a computer science professor at the
University of California, Davis. Matloff has become a leading voice
opposing industry claims and also has gathered the stories of older
programmers who feel they've been forced into premature obsolescence.
MATLOFF STILL AGAINST IMMIGRANT PROGRAMMERS Inflation safety valve:
immigration Seattle Times June 29, 1999 p. F5 Foreign workers fill
labor vacuum, keeping wage raises down Merrill Goozner Chicago
Tribune. "There is no desperate software labor shortage," maintains
Norman Matloff, a professor at the University of California at Davis.
He blames software firm' unwillingnessto hire or retrain more
expensive middle-age programmers for the supposed shortage. By the
end of next year, immigration for the 90s will exceed those of the
1900 decade. 5 million undocumented workers in US, growing by 275,000
Electrical Engineering Times 10/26/98 George
Nichols, plus two rejected pieces on Matloff and Yeh Ling Ling
alt.politics.white-power, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh Matloff: immigrants come INTENDING to leech off U.S. taxpayers! The right wing white supremacists finally find Norman Matloff, and they love him!
Matloff leaves comments that Intel isn't posting many jobs comp.software-eng thread supporting Matloff's "great" paper
"Bills Would Let More Skilled Workers In" Asian Week April 23, 1998 p. 10 But opponents [like Matloff] say legislation could hurt Asian Americans. Stacy Lavilla. ...it could be bad for Asian Americans, warns Norman Mattloff. He says numerous companies hire H1b visa holders to replace Asian American professionals whose salaries have become too costly. "It definitely affects Asian Americans because there are so many in the field ...always have a negative effect..incliding citizens of color... Yeh Yeh Ling agrees, why not give jobs first to Asian Am already here. 50% of Intel visas had masters degrees or PhD, they hired 13,000 new employees last year images \clipim\98\01\billskil.tif
\clip\98\08\matap.txt House Panel Debates Immigrant Visas By MICHELLE MITTELSTADT Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Clinton administration will oppose legislation that would nearly double the number of visas for high-skilled foreign workers unless new protections for American workers are included ``There is no desperate software labor shortage, period,'' pronounced Norman Matloff, a computer science professor at the University of California at Davis. ``The only shortage here is indeed one of cheap labor,'' he added, saying that the computer industry hires on average only 2 percent of the people who apply for jobs". \clip\98\07\mignews.txt MIGRATION NEWS Vol. 5, No. 4 April, 1998 Current and back issues may be accessed via Internet on the Migration News Home Page--http://migration.ucdavis.edu "Many of the critical stories repeated charges made most forcefully by University of California at Davis Computer Science Professor Norm Matloff, who said, for example, that many US employers overspecify job requirements so that the only person who qualifies is the H-1B foreigner the company wants to hire, that US companies are reluctant to hire and retrain older US engineers and programmers, and that many US companies do little to retain US workers." Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage "In my own case, I am married to a Chinese immigrant, am fluent in Chinese, and have been active in the Chinese immigrant community for more than 20 years, hardly the activities of a xenophobe. " \clip\98\07\labr2.txt Ten Tips for High-Tech Hiring Microsoft Internet Magazine March 25, 1998 Clay Hawthorne http://home.microsoft.com/reading/business3.asp "6. Donít stereotype your needs. The stereotype of the young, male, pale-skinned computer geek shouldn't apply any longer. Dr. Norman Matloff, a professor at the University of California at Davis, argues that the labor shortage is a misperception caused in part by too many companies relying on the same kind of worker and placing undue emphasis on new, "hot" technologies. (Visit Dr. Norman Matloff's home page for evidence to support his contention the labor shortage doesnít exist.)" Under the surface: Is the pool of programming talent too small? Is There A Shortage Of High Tech Workers?Home
Author Norman Matloff, a computer science professor at the University of California at Davis, is highly skeptical of the ITAA's assessment, and called the organization's motivation into question If programmers are so rare and valuable, he says, why are companies like Microsoft hiring a mere 2% of their applicants? March 1998 Computer Source Magazine (Seattle area free computer journal) US NEWS & WORLD REPORT, 3/16/98 Too old to write code? The software industry's labor shortage may be a myth BY JAMES LARDNER The United States faces a critical shortage of computer programmers--there's something on which Microsoft and Netscape and the federal government can all agree.
Arthur comments: Norman Matloff would rather that France's best engineers and scientists (as well as China and India) should stay at home to compete with US industry instead of helping dominate the world even more completely than we do now. Great norm. From: email@example.com GO WEST, YOUNG FRENCHMAN A torrent of high-tech talent is leaving--maybe for good \clip\98\05\french.txtRaising Roof on Visas San Jose Mercuy News Feb 24, 1998. Hearings set on higher tech cap for immigrants. Norman Matloff said flatly: there is no shortage, found a 15 to 20 percent wage gap between foreign born and American born counterparts (does not include qualification of equal education and Silicon Valley only - overall, immigrants are paid more, even in Silicon valley not less because they are better educated) "A majority of H-1B workers are hired by employers looking for cheap labor" (he has also stated that the only reason any immigrant is hired is because they are cheaper, even though on average, they are better paid) Industry argues immigrants are neccesary, labor groups also oppose immigrants. \clip\98\05\newquot.txt New Quota Weighed for Immigrant Technology Workers The New York Times, Monday, February 23, 1998 By ROBERT PEAR " Norman Matloff, a professor of computer science at the University of California at Davis, said that many high-technology companies were seeking cheap labor. As a result, he said, they prefer to hire recent graduates and foreign workers and often discriminate against American computer programmers over the age of 40, who are perceived as requiring higher salaries. " \clip\98\04\itmanp.txt http://www.techweb.com/se/ Electrical Engineering Times January 19, 1998, Issue: 989 Work-force conference spotlights issue, as new stats show shortfall is worse than thought -- Government tackles IT manpower shortage Robert Bellinger But not everyone backs those assertions. In a paper titled "Debunking the Myth of a Software Labor Shortage," computer-science professor Norman Matloff states flatly that "no such shortage" exists. Matloff, who was added to the convocation's list of panelists after some apparently last-minute negotiations, further writes that "employers hire only a tiny fraction of their applicants for software positions." Nov 15, 1997 1997 Asian Pacific Islander Legislative Conference Summary: Federal Issues. Norman Matloff, a right-wing Republican, should be criticized for his opposition on immigration, and his negative opinions about Chinese people (I, Arthur Hu, brought up his name, but did not mention that he was actually a left-wing Democrat, it is remarkable that they guessed incorrectly about his stated political leanings, which shows where he perhaps should be classified) EE shortage or hidden agenda? By Robert Bellinger EE Times 12/8/97 "There is no shortage of computer programmers," insisted Norman Matloff, a computer-science professor at the University of California, Davis, "but rather, a 'shortage' of programmers with specific skills." Matloff, who called the shortage scenario a "smokescreen hiding increased immigration as the central agenda," maintains that "any competent programmer can become productive in a new software technology in less than a month." http://cmp-pub1.web.cerf.net/en/sbin/iarecord?NS-search-set=/3491d/ aaaa004qS91d900&NS-doc-offset=0&NS-adv-search=0&At least Tanton doesn't make thinly veiled attacks on the contributions and abilities of the Chinese Americans, and Matloff is the one with web links and citations for evidence that Silicon valley never needed immigrants, or that immigrants are ripping off the welfare system instead of the other way around with Social Security. STANFORD: ANY COMPUTER PROGRAMMER CAN PICK UP A NEW TECHNOLOGY IN A MONTH OR SO? \clip\97\07\stanf.txt http://www.techweb.com/search/ Electrical Engineering Times November 25, 1996, Issue: 929 High-tech immigration sparks debate By Robert Bellinger "The bottom line," said professor Norman Matloff of the University of California, Davis, "is these employers are not willing to hire Americans with 10 to 15 years' experience. They say they need people with the right skills, but should they be insisting on a laundry list of the latest hot skills? I maintain they should not, because any computer programmer can pick up a new software technology in a month or so." MATLOFF WANTS COMPANY TO HIRE CINDY INSTEAD OF OBVIOUSLY BETTER QUALIFIED CANADIAN 2/26/97 This company should be hiring Cindy, who can be productive in C++ Windows and image processing with no prior experience in just two days instead of a Canadian with years of experience.
EE Times 9/8/97 Alliance targets training for software jobs By Robert Bellinger "The situation is not helped by industry, which is wasting its talent, according to Norm Matloff, a professor at the University of California at Davis. The computer industry, he wrote in a recent paper, is discarding too many mid-career professionals. "What happens to mid-career people is that they get into non-technical jobs," according to Matloff." http://cmp-pub1.web.cerf.net/en/sbin/iarecord?NS-search-set=/3491d/ aaaa004qS91d900&NS-doc-offset=1&NS-adv-search=0&
MATLOFF: KICKING ELDERLY IMMIGRANTS OFF OF SSI ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH Welfare Reform and Immigration: A Prognosis Norman Matloff Immigration Review Fall Winter 1996-97 \images\972\113097\p01.tif "since most will simply naturalize, it is replacing one 5 year waiting period for another" EVERY COLLEGE AND HIGH SCHOOL IS EQUALLY GOOD, WHY FIGHT OVER MERIT? No, Arthur, I don't think Lowell should be in the business of saving tuition dollars for the lucky few.Matloff says that the only advantage of Lowell is saving money with AP classes. The only reason Lowell scores are high is because of high admissions, but on the other hand, he doesn't say that high test scores indicate quality either, therefore Lowell is no better than any other SF school. The man refuses to recognize excellence, yet he lectures on what excellence really is. [concludes that he sent his daughter to a normal school instead of a magnet, would turn down lowell, and that any UC campus would be fine] Immigration, Evasion and Decadence by John Attarian Analyzing the 1990 Census data, University of California (Davis) professor of computer studies Norman Matloff found that foreign-born computer professionals in Silicon Valley had average salaries almost $7,000 lower than those of Americans of the same age and education level.15" \clip\97\24\matloff\evasion.txt National Center for Policy Analysis "U.S. WELFARE LURING ELDERLY IMMIGRANTS" An analysis by Norman Matloff of the University of California at Davis reveals: That 45 percent of elderly immigrants in California received cash welfare in 1990. Among Russian immigrants the figure was 66 percent, and among Chinese, 5 percent. Matloff there would be no harm if Sowell cites that Dunbar was destroyed when it was switched to a neighborhood school, or if Lowell dropped selective admissions. Claims random selection would result in more chinese than merit only You're not chinese if you don't speak the language???? Date sent: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 08:38:11 -0700 From: Norm Matloff
First of all, I don't "attack" Chinese, as you well know. Second, this is laughable, because it is NOT your ethnic group. You're not Chinese in any real sense. You don't speak Chinese. You've said you're glad that your parents didn't teach you and your siblings about Chinese culture. Microsoft Job Growth is Harmful to Seattle and US economy Open arms, outstretched hands Immigrants get more benefits than U.S. natives, study shows March 7, 1996 CNN \clip\97\24\matloff\matloff.htm Norm vs. Jewish Familyi and Children's center: "> > But such numbers are misleading, argues Anita Friedman who works > > with Russian emigres at San Francisco's Jewish Family and > > Children's Center. > > I interviewed Ms. Friedman's assistant, who was quite disgusting. > When I pointed out that many of those elderly immigrants on welfare > were from middle-class families who were reneging on their promises > to financially support their parents, the staffer was not the least > bit apologetic. He even said, "We at this Center are going to see > to it that our seniors get every penny possible." " New York Times Editorial / Letters; Friday August 28, 1997 Title: "Most Elderly Immigrants Don't Play By The Rules" By NORM MATLOFF Davis, Calif., Aug 22, 1997 F102097 \doc\web\clip\97\19\retire.htm NORMAN MATLOFF STRIKES AGAIN - CONSERVATIVE INVESTORS BUSINESS DAILY The World's Retirement Home? Investor's Business Daily Aug 21, 1997 p. 1 By David A. Price Asian Week, June (approx) 1997 "Missed Opportunies" Matloff, the one-man anti-Chinese movement is upset that one caller uses the not-PC term Bok Gwai for black person, and implies that Asians are at fault for blacks commiting terror against Asians in housing projects they dominate. National Review, July 28 1997 Issue "Norman Matloff finds political hackers on the Internet. . . ." Norm Matloff is back again on the xenophobic National Review creating more mischief. - Dave Chiang HU TO ASIAN WEEK - MATLOFF WRONG ON ENGINEERS AND SSI ISSUE article HU TO EE TIMES - MATLOFF MISLEADS ON IMMIGRANT ENGINEERS article HU ON MATLOFF - IMMIGRATION REFORM OR HATE SPEECH? article Most arguments against immigratio are refuted by facts that wages and jobs are up, not down, and the enviroment is better, not worse. TANTON OF FAIR QUOTES MATLOFF ON "OVERPRODUCTION" Detroit Free Press op-ed by Taunton quotes Norman Matloff that we are "overproducing electrical engineers" \clip\97\15\tanton.htm MATLOFF SPEAKS MAY 21 AT BOSTON UNIVERSITY Boston University workshop summary On May 21 Professor Bob Lucas of Boston University hosted a Workshop on the Migration of Foreign Scientists and Engineers, funded by the Sloan Foundation. About 20 people participated. \clip\98\12\saesum.htm MIGRATION OF FOREIGN SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS TO THE UNITED STATES WORKSHOP SUMMARY Prepared by Parvina Rebbi and Robert Lucas On May 21, 1997, a workshop on the migration of foreign scientists and engineers to the United States was sponsored by the Sloan Foundation and held at the Institute for Economic Development, Boston University. The workshop was conducted in four main panels: The first panel addressed the role of foreign science and engineering students at American universities. Panelists: Thomas Espenshade, Michael Finn, Norman Matloff "He claimed that few foreign students are exceptionally talented and that the majority of foreign and native graduate students are of ordinary talent. As a result, entry of foreign students in American graduate programs leads to an excess of computer scientists in the software labor market. " ", Matloff closed by arguing that: student visas should only be granted to exceptionally talented international students; research funding for computer science graduate programs should be decreased to reduce the supply of graduate students in the field; and a decrease in government funding for research programs would also reduce demand by universities for graduate students in computer science. " DEBRA SAUNDERS SF CHRON CITES MATLOFF SSI STUDY \clip\97\14\matloff1.txt San Francisco Chronicle Sunday, April 27, 1997 ∑ Page 9 DEBRA J. SAUNDERS firstname.lastname@example.org Scam, American-Style " In the New York Times, the head of the Union of Councils of Soviet Jews warned that the new laws may result in ``half a million new homeless and starving people.'' " " Norm Matloff of UC Davis did a demographic study of elderly immigrant SSI recipients in California and found that 52 percent lived with their families. `" "Let them live with the daughter who probably sponsored them. " THE POT CALLS THE KETTLE BLACK - MATLOFF IS ENGAGING IN RACISM BY USINGS BLACKS TO PAINT ASIANS AND HISPANICS AS EVIL. http://www.arthurhu.com/97/04/asiablak.htm San Francisco Chronicle May 20, 1997 p. A23 Asians, Blacks and intolerance By Norman Matloff It IS NO secret that many Asian immigrants harbor racist attitudes toward African Americans and Latinos. What is less noticed is that Asian American community activists are ignoring the problem, doing nothing proactive to deal with immigrant racial intolerance. RESPONSE: BASHING THE COMMUNITY HE CLAIMS TO BE ACTIVE IN / ASIAN BASHING "COMPLICATED EQUATION" Editor -- Norman Matloff's commentary (Open Forum, May 20) on the problems between Asian immigrants and African Americans seems all too consistent with this Prop. 187 proponent's campaign to bash the same community he claims to have been active in... instead he acts as a sniper, attacking the vulnerable" San Francisco Chronicle May 22, 1997 A26 OLIVER WANG Emeryville May 23: ASIAN BASHING Editor -- The May 20 Open Forum article by Norman Matloff, ``Asian, Blacks and Intolerance,'' was very disturbing as far as timing and substance are concerned. The Asian bashing now is in its high point... Chinese immigrants are the most successful group in today's America, and this fact triggers envy. Asians, as Jews before them, should be proud of their success. RUDY J. BUDESKY El Cerrito MATLOFF NOT WILSON DESERVES TO BE PORTRAYED AS MUGGER OF ELDERLY F052297 Asian Week March 7, 1997 p. 4 Justin Lee. Cartoon shows a masked mugger labled "Wilson" snatching a purse from an elderly woman labeled "elderly immigrants". But it's Matloff who deserves to be labeled in the picture. MATLOFF ATTACKS CHINESE AND INDIAN ENGINEERS AS NONESSENTIAL, HIRE MID CARREER PEOPLE WITH NO MARKETABLE SKILLS \clip\97\11\noshort.txt Electrical Engineering Times April 28, 1997, Issue: 951 Professor: There are no shortages; hire mid-career people -- Report raps computer industry on immigration By Brian Santo MATLOFF CLAIMS MOST CHINESE WANT ELDERLY KICKED OFF SSI Matloff claims that on a radio talk show, most Chinese agree that the SSI should be yanked away from poor elderly Chinese, here is the transcript. He also says reaction was positive to the Asian Week piece. (\priv\97\03\matloff.txt) MATLOFF'S FAULTY SALARY SURVEY CITED \clip\97\09\progjob.txt PATRICK J. McDONNELL and JULIE PITTA, COLUMN ONE; 'Brain Gain' or Threat to U.S. Jobs?; Silicon Valley companies say they need foreign workers to stay on top. Critics claim salary savings are behind, Los Angeles Times, 15 Jul 1996. "Norman Matloff, a professor of computer science at UC Davis who wrote a critical study of industry hiring, says that using census data he found that average annual salaries for foreign- born computer professionals in Silicon Valley were nearly $7,000 lower than among native Americans of comparable age and education levels." IT ALL COMES FROM MATLOFF All come from a research done by Norm Matloff at UC Davis. He used 5% of the 1990 census data, and calculated those elderly on welfare who came to california during 1980-1987. The percentages he found are: Chinese 55%, Korean 50%, Soviet Union 66%, Vietnamese 74%, and Mexican 21%. He pointed to the low Mexican rate and claimed the high rate for Chinese is cultural. He defined Chinese as those from Mainland, Taiwan and Hong Kong. \clip\97\24\allcomes.txt US NEWS AND WORLD REPORT 4/25/96 \clip\97\24\matloff\parasite.txt Prof. Norman Matloff of the University of California at Davis has found that 55 percent of elderly Chinese immigrants in California are on welfare, compared with just 9 percent of the state's older native-born residents. NORMAN MATLOFF IS WORSE THAN ANTI-IMMIGRANT FAIR FOUNDER JOHN TANTON < href="../97/03/tanton.txt">link
Immigration Review, No. 27, Fall/Winter, 1996-97 *Welfare Reform and Immigration: A Prognosis, by NORMAN MATLOFF Arthur Hu: Would Norman Matloff be called an anti-semite if he said against the Jews what he charges the Chiense with?
CALIFORNIA COMMENTARY Why Not a Lottery to Get Into UC? The pool of academically eligible students would be diversified, meeting the affirmative action goal, ending its abuse. By NORMAN MATLOFF, Norman Matloff teaches at UC Davis, where he was formerly chairman of the Affirmative Action Committee.; This article originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times [Matloff advocates a lottery which basically denies the basic concept of merit and ability, such a lottery satisfies neither diversity, since few blacks meet even minimal standards and would reduce numbers, and would reduce quality since it would result in the average, not the top test scores] PERSPECTIVE ON IMMIGRATION Family Reunification-- Just a Passport to Jobs Economics, not kin or politics, is the main driving force, so cutting this category of entries to the U.S. isn't heartless. (Matloff continues his attack saying that Asians should not be allowed to bring family members over if they seek jobs, and that Asians are harmful to high tech, despite the wishes of high tech leaders) \clip\97\03\matimm.txt MYTH VERSUS FACT ON THE IMPACTS OF HIGH IMMIGRATION LEVELS \clip\97\02\eldrnonc.txt ELDERLY NON-CITIZENS ON WELFARE WILL COST THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER $328 BILLION OVER THE NEXT DECADE Robert Rector Senior Policy Analyst and William F. Lauber Research Associate The Heritage Foundation F.Y.I. No. 54 March 23, 1995 "An analysis of elderly immigrants in California by Professor Norman Matloff of the University of California at Davis shows that 45 percent received cash welfare in 1990. Among Russian immigrants, the figure is 66 percent; among Chinese, 55 percent." \clip\97\02\winimig.txt Forwarded to PNEWS from Yeh Ling-Ling, DRASTIC IMMIGRATION REDUCTION: A WIN-WIN PROPOSITION, National Minority Politics, 31 Aug 1995 (cites Norm Matloff's arguments against immigrant engineers) "This is not true, according to Professor Norman Matloff of the UC-Davis Department of Computer Science, who points out that virtually all of the major technological advances in this field have been made by U.S. natives" Date sent: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:33:07 -0800 1/28/96 Matloff does not believe in the goal of proportional representation yet claims to be "indifferent" and "not opposed" to conventional proportionality based affirmative action. > > Once again, that does not bother me. I'm not interested in > > "representation." > The truth comes out. Matloff does not care about > representation, Under what system of logic taught at your alma mater MIT is being *indifferent* to something equivalent to be *against* it? ORIGINAL WEFLARE USE AMONG CHINESE IMMIGRANTS STUDY SACRAMENTO BEE INS Loopholes Lead Legal Immigrants to the World of Welfare Sacramento Bee Op-Ed December 14, 1994 Norman Matloff NATIONAL REVIEW ORIGINAL MATLOFF ATTACK ON CHINESE SSI EASY MONEY, LOST TRADITIONS By NORMAN MATLOFF National Review, 21 Feb 1994. \clip\97\02\matfeldr.txt MATLOFF KEY ANTI-CHINESE IMMIGRANT VOICE AT HOOVER INSTITUTION FORUM AT STANFORD \clip\96\11\stanmatl.txt 10/22/96 High-tech workers become new focus of immigration debate. Norman Matloff spouts out at a Hoover Institution forum at Stanford U as key anti-skilled immigrant voice. http://www.stanford.edu/news/release/961022immigrate.html \doc\96\06\matlof02.txt It makes no difference if Asians are 28% of the best SAT scores, and Jews are proportionally not very high in engineering. \doc\96\06\matlof01.txt Computer scientists are no more talented than english majors. No group is genetically more capable than any other, but immigrant engineers are culturally less capable, despite higher test scores and participation rates. \priv\96b\09\matloff3.txt Asians are NOT more talented. And why are there so many immigrant Asians scientists >Because this has been their ticket to a green card, Arthur. \priv\96b\08\matlof5.txt Asians aren't promoted into management because they are not "verbally agressive" ** Yahoo is not important or innovative, only Wang was. Dang it Norm, this is yet another example of deciding that the #1 leader in the industry isn't important merely because it has an immigrant as a key person. ** A computer game company requires 3D experience and MS-Windows. SAT scores show that Asians are simply 20-28% of the most skilled persons in math, rather than Matloff's racist conclusion that high % of Asians is the result of lower skills / salaries and inflated credentials. ** Matloff confirms that he believes the presence of Asians immigrants has harmed harmed high tech, and that the high numbers of Asians with high test scores has nothing to do with how bright Asians are, or their relative talent which he judges to be below that of native Americans, who are mostly white. He also states again that Intel and Sun don't create any new jobs either. MATLOFF ATTACKS IMMIGRANTS BY PITTING THEM AGAINST BLACKS AND OTHER IMMIGRANTS Public Interest Norm Matloff has a piece in the Summer 1996 issue of The Public Interest entitled "How Immigrations Hurts Minorities." From: email@example.com (Norm Matloff) The enclosed LA Times article reports that House Republicans have decided to restore SSI access to what I will call "Category 2" immigrants. I believe that this action is likely to be deeply regretted... http://www.instanet.com/~vct/WELFAREIMMMATLOFF062197.html, 7503 bytes, 27Sep97 \clip\98\07\debug.htm http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/pub/Immigration/ImmigAndComputerIndustry/ NMNatRev.html Debugging Immigration Norman Matloff National Review, October 9, 1995 (Dateline Silicon Valley.) In mid-September dozens of lobbyists for computer industry employers descended upon Capitol Hill. Companies such as Microsoft and Sun Microsystems protested that congressional proposals to place restrictions on skills-based immigration policies would undermine America's leadership in the world computer industry. Histrionics were the preferred mode of communication, as in Sun vice president Ken Alvarez's claim that the legislation ``is going to kill us,'' by blocking Sun's ability to hire ``the best talent in the world.'' MATLOFF TELLS CONGRESS TO KEEP CHINESE IMMIGRANTS OUT The Adverse Impacts of Immigration on Minorities Testimony to House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Immigration \priv\96\05\matloff4.txt - Even Computer Associates does not create jobs for Americans, says Matloff even though the employment profiles are mostly white men, especially in high management. He says David Chiang as a Buchananesque distate of corporate America, yet he said that "Corporate America has caused far more human suffering than any Pioneer Fund", listing corporate Holocausts, and he is the one who agrees with Buchanan on immigration issues. \priv\96\16\matloff.txt - Matloff believes that the Asian educational system is "harmful", and that superiority of Japanese cars is due to workers. \priv\96\06\matloff2.txt - says again would only specify 5 year experience in programming, refer to winnt for Gates saying you don't need experience. Says underemployment, not unemployment is the problem, asked about 1.5% unemployment rate. \priv\96\06\matloff.txt - Says that all of 4 of 10 vice presidents of Cypress were hired in preference to natives because they are cheap and inferior and a net negative effect on the US economy, no need to specify postgrad degree in any want ad, Bill Gates advocates no hiring credentials. \priv\96\04\matloff.txt My only "bashing" of Chinese was to point out the adverse impacts of the Chinese rote-memory system of education on innovativeness. How many Canadian or Israeli or French scientists have I said are outstanding? The answer is zero. \doc\96\01\top10.txt - Top 10 not-credible Matloff positions \doc\96\01\scorecar.txt - A scorecard on Arthur Hu vs. Matloff's views \priv\96\03\antiindu.txt Compares hiring immigrants for profits to Ford anti-semitism, killing strikers, AT&T layoffs, Love Canal, "Dow Chemical ruining the Vietnamese landscape with its war chemicals, about Nestle (successfully) pushing the U.S. to be the only UN member to vote against censuring Nestle for marketing unsafe baby formula in poor African countries, etc, etc. All these are motivated by higher profits -- the same as hiring foreign nationals in the computer industry!" \priv\96\02\immssi.txt - Asians are only 6.2% of SSI recipients. Matloff testifies that Taiwan Chinese are the highest rate d:\priv\96\02\matloff3.txt - Norm speaks on Chinese radio on why immigration reform is good for Chinese, too many workers, too many children in school, etc. >>\priv\96\02\matfair.txt Norm Matloff: Asians also have the lowest rates of volunteerism of any major ethnic group, etc. > "Will Latin Amereican migrants bring with them the tradition of the > mordida (bribe), the lack of involvement in public affairs, etc?" The latter is certainly happening for Chinese immigrants, as Chinese political activists themselves are the first to complain. The voting rate among those eligible is far below that of the general population. \priv\96\02\tsutomus.txt - Computer science degree is completely unneccesary. \doc\96\01\matsen.txt - Matloff opposed to allowing immigration of Asian seniors. \doc\96\01\sunfound.txt Norm says Sun founders were not important. \priv\95\15\SVReport.htm - big Matloff report concluding The most important point is that immigrants are not needed for the success of our national computer industry. In addition to not being a help to the industry, large-scale immigration has arguably hurt both the industry and its workers: Hiring of foreign nationals has led to both unemployment and underemployment of U.S. native professionals. \priv\95\14\matloff4.txt - why we need to favor blacks over immigrants \priv\95\18\winnt.txt - Matloff shows Windows NT project doesn't need advanced degrees or immigrants Matloff's favorite reasons why we don't immigrants, particularly Chinese - Computer companies don't recruit at college campuses, they would if we stopped training immigrants. - We don't need any graduate students or degrees - We don't need any immigrant entrepenuers, or companies founded or co-founded by immigrants, such as Intel or Sun. In fact Intel is harmful to the industry. - Immigrants don't put in as much as they get out - Chinese commit massacres in Beijing and on Taiwan - Chinese bring racist attitudes, why import more racism? - Chinese bring authoratorian values which are harmful. - Immigrants take jobs and business opportunities away from black Americans, and don't hire native Americans. - Immigrants take jobs away from Asian Americans - Chinese don't volunteer - Immigrants don't innovate, therefore we don't need any more immigrant engineers - Immigrant Chinese don't get ACM award or college awards - Immigrants didn't found Intel, plus the their processors suck anyways. - Immigrants form isolated enclaves and don't assimilate - Immigrants destroy places like Monterey Park which used to be a nice white neighborhood, but is now taken over by disgusting Chinese people. - Chinese elderly freeload on social security at far higher rates than "Americans". In fact nearly all of them are freeloaders, and the only way to stop it is to keep them out. - Chinese family members want to immigrate to make a fast buck, not to be re-unified, so the the family preference is a fraud. - Chinese send unaccompanied children to the US where they get a free education, commit crimes and get into trouble. - He should know, he is married to a Chinese and some of his best friends are Chinese, and he thinks An Wang and the students he sponsored are good immigrants (but almost no other immigrants, Chinese or otherwise!) - Chinese vote at low rates - Chinese run for office at low rates Matloff missed these reasons, but why not just join the racist bandwagon: - Chinese culture is incompatible with Truth, Justice, and the American Way - Chinese raise real estate values, driving away native Americans - Chinese buy flashy obnoxious cars - Chinese live in dirty overcrowded slums (Chinatown) - Chinese change the character of single-family neighborhoods by adding in-law apartments and bringing in extended family, straining utilties, parking, and everything else. - Chinese have high incomes and large families, they speed the ultimate destruction of the planet and straining its carrying capacity - Chinese monopolize honors classes, classical music, exam school and selective colleges, and force Americans to work harder just to stay even. They really make Blacks and Hispanics look bad. - Chinese oppose affirmative action for deserving minorities and vote for Republicans at obscene rates - Chinese are promoted / qualified for management at much lower rates than their proportions among professionals in general - Chinese eat dogs, monkeys and snakes - Chinese used to bind women's feet - Chinese believe that men should lead the family and that women's primary emphasis should be on raising and educating children - Chinese have the most ridiculous sounding accent of all races (either Mandarin or Toisan), and silly last names. - Chinese have slanty eyes and greasy straight hair that looks dumb. - Chinese gangs smuggle in people illegally by boat claiming to flee from abortion, then disappear only to show in the newspapers kidnapped by snakeheads for ransom, and then rape them or cut off their fingers - Generations of Chinese came into country by lying about immigration documents and family relations (paper sons) - Chinese men are wimps, - Chinese women are sex goddesses who steal men away from deserving ugly Amazon white women. @@education \clip\96\02\techdegr.txt July 29, 1996 Issue: 912 Section: The Profession -- The Work Week Tech degrees pull in job offers Technical degrees are valuable.