From: "Gregory M. Cochran" Message text written by jerrypournelle >I keep remembering that the Clintons are probably the highest IQ presidents we have ever had. < Somehow I find this hard to believe. Smarter than Jefferson, the Adamses, Madison? Look, _Nixon_ had an IQ of 143. Maybe you should cite him as the example. Gregory Cochran ------------------------------------------------------------------------ How to contribute to H-Bd: 1. To reply privately to just the sender of this message, click the "Reply" button on your email package. 2. To reply publicly to the entire H-Bd list, click the "Reply All" (or equivalent) button on your email package. 3. To start a thread, email your message to h-bd@egroups.com . +OK 10976 octets Received: from smtp11.nwnexus.com (smtp11.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.200]) by mail3.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28292 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ml.egroups.com (ml.egroups.com [207.138.41.146]) by smtp11.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA14848 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:15:38 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: h-bd-return-1881-arthurhu=halcyon.com@returns.egroups.com Received: from [10.1.2.1] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 1999 01:15:37 -0000 Mailing-List: contact h-bd-owner@egroups.com X-Mailing-List: h-bd@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/h-bd/ Received: (listserv 1.272); by m5; 25 Oct 1999 00:15:37 -0000 Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-h-bd@egroups.com Received: (qmail 2669 invoked from network); 25 Oct 1999 00:15:35 -0000 Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (205.188.157.40) by qg.egroups.com with SMTP; 25 Oct 1999 00:15:35 -0000 Received: from SteveSlr@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v23.6.) id aWZT0QZJCU (4587) for ; Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:15:24 -0400 (EDT) From: SteveSlr@aol.com Message-ID: <0.a5895c68.2544fb1c@aol.com> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:15:24 EDT To: h-bd@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Subject: [h-bd] Presidential IQ's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: jerryp@jerrypournelle.com writes: << I keep remembering that the Clintons are probably the highest IQ presidents we have ever had. >> Steve Sailer here: Let's me try to estimate Presidents' IQ's. I've only seen IQ figures for three of them, and those only from single sources, so you'll have to put up with a lot of my dubious guesstimates. I'll also put down my ratings of success or failure, both objective (were they returned to office) and subjective (I tend to be more sympathetic than the conventional wisdom). Do you see much of a pattern? Presidents with IQ's clearly below the Presidential average: John F. Kennedy -- 117 IQ -- A reasonably successful President during his short term. Judging by his taste for intrigue, though, he probably wasn't as smart as he thought he was. Probably would have been assasinated by somebody else (the mob, Castro, etc.), if Oswald hadn't gotten him first. Ronald Reagan -- 112 -- Fascinating figure: few presidents have ever been more right about what the country needed. One of the most successful presidents ever, especially when you consider the dire state of the world on 1/20/81: Energy crisis, stagflation, hostages in Iran, Soviet aggression all over the world, etc. One key to his success was that he never wasted his limited mental powers by paying attention to people around him the way George Bush did -- he kept his mind on the big picture. Re-elected. Franklin D. Roosevelt -- Intellectually similar to Reagan, although Reagan used his powers of showmanship to put into practice policies he deeply believed in, while FDR improvised policies (most of them from 1933 to 1940 being of little substantive value) in order to add some credence to his showmanship. Excellent strategic direction of the war from 1942 through 1944, however. The postwar world, though, would have been disastrously compromised by FDR's affection for Stalin if FDR had died before he shed his horrendous VP Henry Wallace in the summer of 1944, or if FDR had lived long enough to hand the rest of Europe to Stalin. Fortunately, he died at just the right point to let Truman stanch the bleeding. Re-elected 3 times. Warren G. Harding -- Highly successful term in office (compare the depression ridden, witch-hunting, neurotic America of 1920 to the prosperous and stable America of 1923), but his reputation suffered the bad luck of dying before he could ride out a moderate-sized scandal. George Washington -- Washington might belong in the middle range, but intellect was not his strong suit (although that might only be relative to all the smart guys around him like Hamilton, Adams, Jefferson, and Madison). Hugely successful. Re-elected. Harry Truman -- Considered unsuccessful at the time, but his reputation rose dramatically after his term. Re-elected once, discarded after second term. Not too bright guys: Re-elected: 6 of 6 times Probably Middle Range for Presidents: George Bush -- Strangely feminine intelligence. Fortunately, in August, 1991 he had the superbly masculine brain of Margaret Thatcher around to put him on the right track about Kuwait. However, age was clearly taking it's toll by the election of 1992. Lost at re-election. Jimmy Carter -- Considered unsuccessful, but it was a difficult era. Lost at re-election. Gerald Ford -- Lost when trying for election on his own. Calvin Coolidge -- An extremely clear thinker, if not a flashy one. Quite successful as President, although it was an unchallenging time, like Clinton's era. One once on his own, retired when he probably could have been re-elected. Middle of the pack guys: Re-elected: 1 out of 4 times. Clearly Above Average: James Madison -- A great political philosopher, an inadequate President -- had the White House burned to the ground on his watch. Re-elected. Thomas Jefferson -- Everybody treats Jefferson as a great thinker because everybody can find a quote somewhere in Jefferson's writings to support whatever ax they have to grind. An incoherent thinker, but an interesting one. So, although he's overrated, he was still obviously smart. Had one excellent term as President, one bad term. Re-elected. Teddy Roosevelt -- The highest megahertz rating of any Presidential brain. (I suspect TR was a manic-depressive who was never depressed.) Unbelievably well read. At least as smart as Churchill, another descendent of the New York millionaire class. A successful President, although he was always frustrated that he didn't have a truly huge challenge during his terms in office like a world war. Elected on his own term, could have won a second election. Herbert Hoover -- The world's greatest mining engineer, a self-made millionaire, the most accomplished public figure of his time ... until he became President. Failed at re-election. Woodrow Wilson -- Historian, president of Princeton. Often considered unsuccessful as President, although that seems a little harsh to me considering the challenges he faced. Re-elected. Unpopular after second term, but he'd been letting his wife run the country due to his stroke. Richard Nixon -- IQ of 143 according to Greg. Tremendous information processing abilities -- there's no other explanation of his astonishing career considering all the handicaps he labored under. Re-elected but driven from office. Dwight Eisenhower -- Nixon called him most devious man he ever met. Pretended to be an old duffer during his presidency, but that was a bluff. Successful both in war and peace. Re-elected. William Howard Taft -- After being driven from office by his erstwhile mentor, TR, he became Chief Justice of the Supreme Court (and was a lot happier). Lost at re-election. Bill Clinton -- He seems to find the challenges of the Presidency rather boring, and thus seems compelled to create additional challenges for himself (e.g., reinstating the special prosecutor and pushing through sexual harassment legislation opening up his private life for questioning under oath). Unlike his overrated wife, who has never had an original thought in her life, I've always felt that Clinton could have been an interesting thinker ... if he wasn't so allergic to telling the truth or thinking farther ahead than this week's news cycle. A successful President during an easy era, although one fears his reputation might eventually resemble Stanley Baldwin's. Re-elected. Abraham Lincoln -- Poorly educated, but, once his grammar and spelling were cleared up, the greatest American prose stylist of the 19th century. A successful president. Re-elected. U.S. Grant -- The most up and down and up again career in American history. A succesful military officer at a young age, then a failure for 15 years. A drunken store clerk at age 39, the conqueror of Vicksburg a couple of years later. Generally considered an unsuccessful president, although that seems like the typical historian's bias toward Democrats. But seemed a little bored being president. A terrible failure on Wall Street after the presidency left him bankrupt. Dying painfully of cancer, he set out to free his family of his debts by writing his autobiography, which turned out to be a tremendous financial and literary success. No man's brain worked better under pressure, but nobody bored more easily when his life wasn't on the line. Re-elected. John Adams -- The epitome of intellectual brilliance among the Founding Fathers, but not a very successful President. Failed at re-election. John Q. Adams -- Ditto. Failed at re-election. Lyndon Johnson -- Master politician. Considered unsuccessful, but might well have succeeded in an easier era. Elected once on his own, failed at re-election. Martin Van Buren -- Sharp politician, unsuccessful because of recession, but it's hard to say that was his fault. Failed at re-election. Benjamin Harrison -- Constitutional scholar. Lost at reelection. Failed at re-election. Smart guys: Re-elected 10 of 17 times. But tended to have difficult second terms (e.g. Nixon, LBJ, Grant, Clinton, Wilson, Madison, Jefferson) There are plenty of other President's I can't judge that well -- Andrew Jackson being the most intriguing. Like Andrew Johnson, he was a backwoodsman, so it's hard to get a grasp. There are also a number of presidents too boring to rate, like Rutherford B. Hayes. In summary, while each of my judgments are highly arguable, I doubt if anybody else's ratings would come up much different from my conclusion that there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern. Which isn't too surprising -- there are so many people with IQ's in the same range as Reagan, Kennedy, or FDR that the ones from that IQ ballpark who do become President are probably exceptional on a lot of other measures (e.g., they look Presidential). In contrast, an extremely clever guy like Nixon can look and walk like an uncoordinated dork. Steve Sailer www.iSteve.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ How to contribute to H-Bd: 1. To reply privately to just the sender of this message, click the "Reply" button on your email package. 2. To reply publicly to the entire H-Bd list, click the "Reply All" (or equivalent) button on your email package. 3. To start a thread, email your message to h-bd@egroups.com .