Message-ID: <37BEC6E9.B51B1A68@anthro.umontreal.ca>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:34:18 -0400
From: Ken Jacobs <jacobsk@anthro.umontreal.ca>
Reply-To: jacobsk@anthro.umontreal.ca
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To: arthurhu@halcyon.com
Subject: Re: [Upstream] Evolutionist Fantasy?
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Part of the problem comes from the fact that if one cannot agree on what
is a Jew, one can hardly identify the earliest Jews. A very traditional
(and minority) view based on the scriptures is:

_The Jewish Time Line Encyclopedia_ Mattis Kantor (1992) Jason Aronson;
ISBN 0876682298

It's very much in the tradition of the good Bishop's 4004BC and is
largely ignored.

Some of the problems are well described in the first part of the
following which I recommend:

_A History of the Jewish People_ Haim H. Ben-Sasson (Editor) Paperback
Reprint edition (1985) Harvard Univ Pr; ISBN: 0674397312

In short, the problems can be sorted roughly as follows:

1. What is the right period in which to start looking? As best as I can
figure, the appropriate time frame, solely in terms of the
differentiation of ritual traditions, begins shortly after 4000 BCE. The
spread of Copper technology into the "Fertile Crescent" was soon
followed by the arrival of Bronze and Iron technologies. With this
techological turmoil, there was the predictable sequence of power
struggles similar to what, in a European context, would be called feudal
rivalries.  It probably is not a mere coincidence that in the very
precise instructions given in Torah for the construction of the Temple,
the use of iron tools to form the stones is expressly and repeatedly
forbidden. Local rulers tried to control more land and, more
importantly, predictable sources of water for irrigation and used any
gimmick possible to enforce their control over their people (up to and
including such things as the "thou shalt not boil a kid in it's mother's
milk" which gave rise to a multitude of seemingly absurd rules of
Kashrut. It all boiled down to (so to speak) that a rival group had an
annual fertility rite in which a newborn lamb was cooked in a blood and
milk sauce; you ought to take a look at Howard Eilberg-Schwartz, _The
Savage in Judaism_ 1990, Indiana U Press). Unfortunately, tribal or
"fiefdom" boundaries were always changing and the written records are
always produced by the victors, so it's hard to really know what was
going on.

2. Linguistically, virtually everyone at that time was speaking closely
cognate languages. Old Hebrew and Aramaic (the latter being the lingua
franca throughout the Near East, the language in which the Masoretic
compilation of Tanakh was written, and most likely the language in which
Yehud of Nazareth preached to the masses and his apostles) are virtually
indistiguishable. I just spent an afternoon with one of my grad students
who spent the summer with the Ethiopian Jews now in Israel and was
amazed to find that the Amharic (official language of Ethiopia) they
write was translatable by me (with only a working knowledge of Hebrew. 
So when one gets a text, it's darned near impossible to be certain of
the cultural/ethnic/political affiliation of the one who wrote it.

3. Politically, Eretz Yisrael was always a buffer zone between an
expanding and contracting Dynastic Egypt, the "fly by night" city based
empires of the Tigris/Euphrates, and the occasional hordes blowing in
from the Caucasus or Anatolia. Not exactly a situation conducive to a
long, lasting and well-preserved record of ethnic identity. Btw, the
Caucasus is a place where if it weren't such a hell-hole (I spent two
years of my life during six months there) that I would be looking.
Armenian is linguistically very similar to Amharic, Old Hebrew, and
Aramaic and it is probably not due to chance that folk traditions
pre-dating the Eastern Church place the supposed landfall of Noah's Ark
in the Caucasus. The there is the odd case of the Khazars, who come much
later but fit a pattern on Near East ==>Eastern Europe contact I and
others have seen in my prehistoric data, with the Black/Caspian Sea
corridor being the conduit. (On the Khazars, see _The Jews of Khazaria_
Kevin Alan Brook (1999) Jason Aronson; ISBN: 0765760320)

Why all this is not better known can be reduced to a simple answer:
religious politics. Once Christianity became the context within which
most in the West worked, there was Alpha and Omega (see A. O. Lovejoy's
_The Great Chain of Being: A Study of the History of an Idea_ for how
the linearization of time was a Christian idea; it is an idea wholly
alien to Jewish thought). Alpha clearly was the "Old Testament" which
rarely figures in Christian liturgy, the latter relying more on readings
from the parody that is "Hebrews" in the "New Testament."  Thus anything
predating or prefiguring the metaphors or allegories present in Tanakh.
If you really want to get things stirred up, ask you Fundy acquaintabces
to compare the renderings of Virgin Birth in the Jewish and any
Christian Bible.  Or ask them to look at the passages dealing with
"Moshiach" (the messiah). In the Jewish tradition such a person would be
wholly mortal, have a wife and kids, hold a job and be a sprirtual
leader. The Christians turned it into something metaphysical.

Btw, there is a long and strong tradition in Jewish thought the God
needs us as much as we need her. There are very unsubtle references in
writings from very pious Jewish sages to the effect that if we don't
believe enough, God will no longer exist. This going back to Mishnaic
times (the early CE centuries). Curious how the circle closes: "Man
creates God in his own image" has been a lost message for five millennia.

Hope this is somehow useful		-Ken Jacobs     

 

arthur hu wrote:
> 
> I've put your email up on my evolution page which will be at
> 
> http://www.leconsulting.com/arthurhu/index/evol.htm
> 
> and from your keywords gilgamesh and enuma, I've dug up
> a bunch of stuff on the babylonian and sumerian legends. God,
> I never heard of this stuff, yet it's stuck in your standard
> college level middle east myth classes. I feel like somebody
> told me there isn't an Easter bunny.  I don't think the creationists
> even acknowledge these myths exist, is it some kind of
> well kept secret??
> 
> BTW, has anybody tried to date creation based on the
> Sumerian legends?? Do you know of a decent timeline to tell
> us all where the Jews were at the time, and where the heck
> these guys came from anyways? When was genesis written
> and by who? How accurate is the genealogy of the Jews from
> Adam? Is Adam the same as Apu?
> 
> I don't know what will happen if I start waving this at the bible
> believers. Amazing of all the ancient legends, this one still
> trumps science for half the population.
> 
> Interesting, a guy who calls himself gilgamesh cites these common
> legends as proof that the gods came from outer space.
> 
> The Assyro-Babylonian Mythology FAQ version 1.8
> history. Similar, evolved from Sumerian dieties
> http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/assyrbabyl-faq.html#a1.2
> zip36\clip\99\16\assyrbabyl-faq.html
> 
> http://pubpages.unh.edu/~cbsiren/sumer-faq.html
> Sumerian Mythology FAQ (Version 1.11html)
> by Christopher Siren, 1992,1994
> zip36\clip\99\16\sumer-faq.html
> Sumer may very well be the first civilization in the world
> 7,000   start of farming villages
> 5,000   Sumeria collapses
> 
> Sumerian cuneform, the earliest written language, was borrowed by
> the
> Babylonians, who also took many of their religious beliefs. In fact,
> traces and parallels of Sumerian myth can be found in Genesis.
> 
> The Jemdat Nasr period lasted from 3200 BC to 2900 BC. It was not
> particularly remarkable and most adequately described as an
> extenson
> and slowing down of the Uruk period. This is the period during which
> the great flood is supposed to have taken place.
> 
> The bulk of Sumerian parallels are the book of Genesis. As in
> Genesis, the Sumerians' world is formed out of the watery abyss
> and
> the heavens and earth are divinely separated from one another by a
> solid dome. The second chapter of Genesis introduces the paradise
> Eden, a place which is similar to the Sumerian Dilmun, described in
> the myth of "Enki and Ninhursag"
> 
> "The Lord God formed man out of the clay of the ground and blew
> into
> his nostrils the breath of life, and so man became a living being."
> Enki and Ninmah (Ninhursag) use a similar method in creating man.
> Nammu, queen of the abyss and Enki's mother, bids Enki to
> "Kneed the
> 'heart' of the clay that is over the Abzu " and "give it form"
> 
> The one who cures his rib is named Ninti, whose name means the
> Queen
> of months, (Kramer & Maier 1989: pp. 28-30) the lady of the rib, or
> she who makes live. This association carries over to Eve.
> 
> The prologue of "Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the Underworld" may
> contain
> the predecessor to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This tree
> not only contains a crafty serpent, but also Lilith, the legendary
> first wife of Adam.
> 
> In the Sumerian ark, the pious Ziusudra is informed of the gods
> decision to destroy mankind by listening to a wall. He too weathers
> the deluge aboard a huge boat. The flood lasts a long time, but
> Ziusudra comes to rest within seven days and not the near year of
> the
> Bible. He does not receive a covenant, but is given eternal life.
> 
> Date sent:              Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:52:20 -0400
> From:                   Ken Jacobs <jacobsk@anthro.umontreal.ca>
> Send reply to:          jacobsk@anthro.umontreal.ca
> To:                     arthurhu@halcyon.com
> Subject:                Re: [Upstream] Evolutionist Fantasy?
> 
> > I would hope that as a matter of courtesy you would keep me informed of
> > the uses to which you put this information. There is no obligation, but
> > I have spent no small effort in compiling references.
> >
> > Best  - Ken Jacobs
> >
> > arthur hu wrote:
> > >
> > > this is great stuff, thanks!
> > >
> > > Date sent:              Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:02:00 -0400
> > > From:                   Ken Jacobs <jacobsk@anthro.umontreal.ca>
> > > Send reply to:          jacobsk@anthro.umontreal.ca
> > > To:                     arthurhu@halcyon.com
> > > Subject:                Re: [Upstream] Evolutionist Fantasy?
> > >
> > > > The clearest evidence is of a wholesale adoption of the Gilgamesh Epic.
> > > > "There can be no question that the Genesis flood narrative is derived
> > > > from Babylonia. This has long been known, for portions are quoted by the
> > > > fourth-century A.D. church historian Eusebius from a Babylonian priest
> > > > Berosus. In 1872 an archaeologist, George Smith, found an extensive
> > > > Babylonian text, part of what is known as the Gilgamesh epic" (p. 352 in
> > > > Samuel Sandmel, "The Hebrew Scriptures: an introduction to the
> > > > literature and religious ideas" Oxford U Press 1978 [1963]). He then
> > > > goes on to recount the essentials of the epic.
> > > >
> > > > Later in the same book (p. 512), Sandmel writes, "In 1854, a huge
> > > > collection of [Babylonian] tablets (known as the Library of
> > > > Asshurbanipal) was discovered. Among them was a story of creation
> > > > somehwat similar to that in Genesis (though the Babylonian account was
> > > > polytheistic) deciphered in 1872. In the same year, the Gilgamesh Epic
> > > > was deciphered; it told a story of a great flood, with both striking
> > > > similarities to and differences from the story of Noah." The Babylonian
> > > > Creation story has come to be called the Enuma Elish.
> > > >
> > > > Recognizing the Babylonian origin of the pre-patriarch stories in
> > > > Genesis is a commonplace in Jewish biblical studies (however not in
> > > > Christian studies of their "Old Testament"). Indeed, some radical
> > > > scholarship argues that the entire Torah (the five books of Moses) took
> > > > shape only after the Babylonian Exile (e.g., S. David Sperling's "The
> > > > Original Torah: the political intent of the Bible's writers" NYU Press, 1998).
> > > >
> > > > Ken Jacobs
> > > >
> > > > arthur hu wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > What are the babylonian myths?
> > > > >
> > > > > Date forwarded:         Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:07:26 -0400 (EDT)
> > > > > Date sent:              Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:10:00 -0400
> > > > > From:                   Ken Jacobs <jacobsk@anthro.umontreal.ca>
> > > > > Send reply to:          jacobsk@anthro.umontreal.ca
> > > > > To:                     arthurhu@halcyon.com
> > > > > Copies to:              dellison@erols.com, upstream-list@cycad.com
> > > > > Subject:                Re: [Upstream] Evolutionist Fantasy?
> > > > > Forwarded by:           upstream-list@cycad.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > Actually, any decent textual analysis shows that Genesis ("Bereshith" or
> > > > > > "at the start") was a rather late add-on to the Jewish texts,
> > > > > > post-dating the Babylonian Exile and that it is an rough rewriting of
> > > > > > Babylonian myths. Even in the annual liturgical cycle today it is given
> > > > > > far less attention than the events at Sinai, which is perhaps why Jews
> > > > > > have kept a low profile on Creationist issues. It just doesn't matter
> > > > > > much in the larger scheme of things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Ken Jacobs
> > >
> > > Arthur Hu arthurhu@halcyon.com Education Deform Critic
> > > Index: http://www.leconsulting.com/arthurhu/index/edreform.htm
> > > listserver: http://www.egroups.com/list/wa-ed-deform
> 
> Arthur Hu arthurhu@halcyon.com Education Deform Critic
> Index: http://www.leconsulting.com/arthurhu/index/edreform.htm
> listserver: http://www.egroups.com/list/wa-ed-deform