\doc\web\99\12\cminor.txt According to many progressive thinkers if you are white and Christian, you have 2 strikes against you. There are none so discriminating as the U.S. government, represented by the Clinton's and their cohorts.' H eres' an interesting one, as a result of my study of minorities and affirmative action, I've found that the _most_ underrepresented group at elite campuses aren't blacks or Hispanics, but born-again christians, they are about 30-45% of the population, but typically less than 10% of the best colleges. Similarly, SAT surveys show lower SAT scores than jews, or liberal christians or nonreligious, or the national average . These are generally the identical 40% of the populatoin who believe in the 6 day creation bible interpretatoin. . . Also Christian whites have been the targets of harassment (see Lynn Stuter) or even murder in the case of Columbine high school. I have not seen income statistics, but as they are correlated with education, it is likely income is lower and poverty is higher. Incidentally, Baptist is also the most common Black religion, the few Unitarians actually score better than nearly all over groups of whites on the SAT. There was a brief flurry of articles about the under-representatoin of christian whites, one conclusion is rather than fighting against group preferences, it might make some sense to argue that being a white christian might actually qualify one as an "at-risk" group. Since I'm thinking about running for office as a diversity expert, and I'm probably the major proponent of white-chrisitians as disadvantaged minority, what do you think of such a strategy? It would require reporting not only of race and gender, but religion. You could opt out, but if evangalistic christians participated, it would not be hard to show how far behind they are behind liberal christians and the nonreligious, let alone jews. Jews might also object as they have objected to being counted in the Census. In the scheme of things, it looks like Jews, Asians, and Hindus score the best, then come liberal christians and the non-religious, the Catholics are dead center in just about everything, and baptists and other born-again christians or unqualified "christians" fall behind. I told the Washington Post that the christian right is this huge sleeping elepant with respect to exploiting the disadvantaged minority issue, what do you folks think? If there is such a thing as "white trash", the white equivalent of blacks, this would be it (Yeah, few whites seem to want to play the game of my race is more downtrodden than yours, even the Asians play this game, and try to blow up the model minority to look like a bunch of illierate immigrants) Date sent: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:16:46 -0400 To: 71524.2205@compuserve.com From: Diana Anderson (by way of Fred Battey ) Subject: re:Diversity Film In Tucson > To All, especially those in Tucson > > I must have deleted the message regarding the film that was shown at a > Tucson district meet which alarmed a teacher. I'm not surprised by its > content. I am not surprised that district teachers didn't either walk > out or stand up to verbally protest Jane Elliot's creation. Before I was > a teacher I was a parent, and I can vividly remember the intimidation I > felt when I would approach teachers or schools in general to inquire > about anything in regards to curriculum. Now, good teachers and school > employees are arriving at events that will forever change they way they > think about their schools. If when faced with these events a teacher is > appalled by the message of the film then there is a heart that believes > in God and is patriotic, whether one recognizes this in their daily > lives or not. > > Jane Elliot can be found at > http://www.denkmal-film.com/BlueEyedSyn.html > > Her work is supported by the Center for Information on Research on > Racism in Marburg Germany and has appeared on Oprah, Tonight Show, > Donahue, PBS' Frontline and ABC Nightline. Originally from Iowa, she > invented a phychologically based method to teach her students a lesson > in discrimination, following the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther > King, Jr. According to many progressive thinkers if you are white and > Christian, you have 2 strikes against you. There are none so > discriminating as the U.S. government, represented by the Clinton's and > their cohorts. Does the average American citizen ask what color one is > if one answers the phone and finds they are speaking to a stranger? No. > Good teachers, private or public don't care what color a student > is!!!!!!!! Only government organizations require that we note our > racial, ethnic or sometimes are religious heritage. > The rules of their future diversity program will not include our > white Christian skin and I'm proud to be one of many people who are > speaking out, walking out and praying out loud for our country, home and > children. How can children in Tucson or anywhere else learn to see past > color if given the example set in Jane Elliot's films (Blue Eyed or Eye > of the Storm) relies on discriminating against another group? > The web site above may help you get access to the film. I hope and > pray that the teachers in Tucson Unified School District will gather > together to protest any future attempts by 'change agents' to force feed > this type of ethnic pornography. > Diana Anderson > Well I guess that adds more evidence to the "they don't want to play that game" theory. I have yet to see anyone from that side of the fence who wanted to exploit rather than oppose civil rights remedies for educational and economic inequality. If it continues to fly like a lead balloon, I'll have to stay away from _that_ different idea. Only seems fair that they get to do breakdowns by race to justify policy, religion might actually work to the advantage of some groups. Send reply to: wa-ed-deform@egroups.com From: "John F. Oldfield" To: Date sent: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:07:05 -0700 Subject: [wa-ed-deform] Re: Christian whites as endangered minority > Lay off Hu! > > Sharon > Send reply to: wa-ed-deform@egroups.com From: "John Oldfield" To: Date sent: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:58:08 -0700 Subject: [wa-ed-deform] Re: Christian whites as endangered minority > > > You paint with a very broad brush, Arthur. > > I would love to see the studies on this, especially the: "born-again > Christians, they are about 30-45% of the population, but typically > less than 10% of the best colleges. Similarly, SAT surveys show > lower SAT scores than Jews, or liberal Christians or nonreligious, > or the national average . These are generally the identical 40% of > the population who believe in the 6 day creation bible interpretation." > > Creation and Evolution are both theories. There is still the missing > link. Both are supported by evidence. As they relate to school both > theories need to be considered. Your assumption that believers in > the Creation Theory is limited to Christians is incorrect! Better trim > the bristles on that brush a little. > Also remember that the big bang, K-T meteor strike and iridium layer, KC14 dating, isochron dating, the geological strata labels, star evolution, coral layers, red shift, tree rings, ice cores, algae layers, stars over 6,000 light years away, Crater Lake erupting 6,000 years ago, a universe where the farthest observable objects are 12 billion light years away, etc are also "theories". I'm not aware of any scientific creationist sites or advocates who are not Christians, most Jews and Muslims are content to leave it to faith. OK, I don't have proof that the 40% of the population who believe in a 6,000 year universe and the 40% who are born-again are the same people, but it's probably a substantial overlap. Im not sure if it's the evolution thing or the "white folks have low test scores and don't qualify for elite colleges" point that set you off. Seems European Americans are the only ethic group too proud to claim that they too qualify to be a disadvantaged group. Like I said, even the Asians with their astronomical test scores and high average incomes try to look like poor downtrodden persons of color. Do you think the public would be at least as hostile as you if I suggested that public schools start tracking religion as well as ethnicity? Like I said, the UCLA college freshman survey and SAT both collect this information, and it is fascinating, and it would be the best way to break out "disadvantaged" whites since no other breakdown (for example ethnicity - Italian vs Polish) really comes up with any significant differences. Would there be a better way to spin this? If such statistics were gathered, they should be similar to college surveys that show evangelistic Christians come from homes with less education, send fewer kids to elite colleges, get lower test scores, and have higher poverty rates. Jews object to this because higher than average outcomes make them the target of envy. Am I correct in assuming that, right now, most unqualified "Christians" would rather remain uncounted than be "outed" as a disadvantaged group? The "power" whites are the liberal christians, episcopalians etc if you see who the CEO and people in place like Harvard and Stanford are It simply amazes me that a group that numbers nearly half of the population gets bullied around by all the leftist minorities from gays (3%)to jews(2%) to blacks(11%) because they have too much pride or fear of the government to let themselves be counted. Yeah, this is pretty radioactive stuff for a guy who thinks he can win a public office, but it will come out sooner or later, might as well get practice on spinning it with my friends before my enemies get a crack at me. You can look at my religion page http://www.leconsulting.com/arthurhu/index/relig.htm "LOW CHURCH" EVANGELICALS CLAIM BIAS IN NAVY CHAPLAIN CORPS \clip\98\15\chaplain.txt The Seattle Times Company Friday, October 16, 1998 Navy chaplain corps biased, evangelical says by Tom Bowman The Baltimore Sun "claiming that promotions and choice jobs in the corps are reserved for Catholics and mainline Protestants at the expense of "low-church" Protestants, such as Baptists and fundamentalist faiths." Rank by Top Job Chaplain Rate Jobs % Pers Rate Total 17 100 HProt 8 47.1 15 3.14 Cath 5 29.4 24 1.22 LProt 4 23.5 41 -1.74 Note that catholics again are "average" in everything. Low rates of evangelicals are also found in selective universities and among CEOs of large corporations. Their SAT scores are also relatively low compared to other whites. (Arthur Hu) doc\94\11\ceorelig.wk1 - Fortune survey of CEO by religion Fortune 4-28-86 Rank by CEO Presbyterian 8.80 Episcopalian 8.80 Congregational 6.60 Jewish 3.80 Methodist 0.84 None 0.76 Lutheran 0.75 Roman Catholic 0.68 Other 0.27 Baptist 0.18 http://www.leconsulting.com/arthurhu/index/relig.htm#satrelig DOC\DOC921\RELIG90.WK1 religion ranked by race and SAT score Source: Unpublished numbers, College Board, 1990 SAT-Comb 95/90* W1.0 B-1.27 H-1.18 A1.01 J*1.10 I*1.10 * Note that Asians overall scored only slightly better than whites overall when both math and verbals are counted. Asians were outscored by Episcopals, Presbyterians, Black Unitarians, Jews and Hindus. Only White Unitarians and Quakers outscored Jews. Rank by test score - all and Asian Race - Wh-white Af-Black As-Asian Al-All Races Wh Judaism 25,600 1030 * Jewish Avg As Hindu 4138 1029 * Asian Indian Af Unitarian 64 966 * Top Black group Al Episcopal 22,109 957 * Episcopal Al Presbyterian 37,353 955 * Presbyterian As Total 70739 938 * Asian Avg Wh Total 688,933 934 * White Avg Race Religion Number Math + Verbal SAT Wh Unitarian 1,745 1073 Wh Quaker 894 1037 Wh Judaism 25,600 1030 * Jewish Avg Al Quaker 1,009 1029 As Hindu 4138 1029 Al Judaism 27,374 1026 As Presbyterian 3195 1022 As Angelican 197 1019 Al Hindu 4,741 1012 Wh Hindu 82 1004 As No Pref 17987 1001 As U Methodist 662 998 Wh Mennonite 952 990 As Unitarian 49 986 As Episcopal 444 983 Wh Chistian Sci 830 979 Wh No Pref 99,076 979 Al Mennonite 1,063 974 As Methodist 1108 973 As Quaker 25 973 Wh Mormon 6,400 972 Wh Episcopal 19,555 970 As S Baptist Conv 332 966 Af Unitarian 64 966 *Top Black Al No Pref 137,305 963 Wh Luth Missouri 8,038 963 Wh Un Church of Christ 7,066 962 As Wesleyan 32 960 Al Luth Missouri 8,624 959 Al Episcopal 22,109 957* Episcopal Wh Presbyterian 32,019 956 Wh Angelican 1,765 956 Al Chistian Sci 989 955 Al Presbyterian 37,353 955* Presbyterian Al Un Church of Christ 7826 951 Wh U Methodist 23,470 949 Al Mormon 7,594 948 Wh Other 20,125 947 Wh Lutheran in Am 23,380 943 As Christn Reformed 298 943 Wh No Answer 44,397 942 Al U Methodist 26,037 939 Wh Afr Methodist 144 939 As Total 70739 938* Asian Avg Wh S Baptist Conv 14,165 938 Al Lutheran in Am 25,020 937 Wh Total 688,933 934* White Avg As Lutheran in Am 471 931 As Un Church of Christ 253 930 Al S Baptist Conv 15,729 929 As Judaism 218 925 Wh Christn Reformed 2,235 924 As Baptist 3003 924 As Islam 2184 923 SELECTIVE LIBERAL COLLEGES LT 50% CHRISTIAN 13-20% JEWISH zip36\doc\web\99\11\collsurv.wk1 zip36\clipim\99\08\16\opinion.efx .tif Special Report: Opinion on Campus National Review Educational Supplement 1999 p. 33 Class of 1998 (interviewed in 1995) 12 colleges and universities Which of the following religious traditions are you formally affliiated with? A. Roman Catholic B. Protestant C. Islam D. Eastern Orthodox E Judaism f. Other g. None freshmen cath prot isla ortho juda othe none a b c d e f g Christ Liberty 2 61 0 0 0 34 1 63 Citadel 27 65 0 0 0 3 3 92 Marquette 68 16 0 0 0 7 6 84 UC Irvine 27 20 1 3 0 38 9 50 Indiana 30 41 0 0 5 17 5 71 UCLA 28 19 7 0 5 9 30 47 U. Wisconsin 36 23 1 0 4 11 19 59 Dartmouth 23 25 0 0 12 13 20 48 U. Michigan 27 21 0 0 14 13 20 48 Stanford 23 22 0 0 13 18 22 45 Yale 24 23 0 1 13 20 17 48 Brown 21 16 1 0 19 12 29 37 seniors Liberty 2 79 0 0 0 17 2 81 Citadel 18 72 1 1 1 6 1 91 Marquette 73 14 1 0 1 6 5 87 UC Irvine 28 15 4 0 3 19 21 43 Indiana 22 36 0 0 5 14 23 58 UCLA 18 21 1 1 9 14 36 40 U. Wisconsin 37 25 3 0 5 11 13 62 Dartmouth 30 27 0 1 8 7 27 58 U. Michigan 25 22 2 6 17 28 47 Stanford 23 28 0 1 8 13 27 52 Yale 25 26 2 1 15 6 25 52 Brown 17 22 4 0 19 7 31 39 (most liberal schools are less than 50% christians of any type) \doc\95\12\racereli.wk1 The American Freshman: National Norms for Fall 1991 Cooperative Institutional Research Program UCLA UCLA freshman survey. Ranked by Representation at Highly Selective Coleges Jewish 5.35 Chinese est 4.50 PR 3.56 Presbyterian 2.70 None 2.52 Asian 2.25 Episcopalian 2.15 Am Indian 1.40 Roman Catholic 1.24 White 1.02 Chicano 0.86 Congregational 0.70 Black 0.53 Born-Again 0.48 Lutheran 0.47 Methodist 0.44 Other 0.20 Baptist 0.19 http://www.leconsulting.com/arthurhu/doc/94/13/ivypoll.wk1 ivypoll.txt "Inside the Ivy League" US News and World Report April 12, 1993 p. 55 Poll of 3,000 undergraduates doc\94\13\ivypoll.wk1 Ivy Leage college survey Rank by representation rate Chinese est. 11.0 (twice Asian rate) Jew 10.0 Asian 5.7 Oth/NoRelig 2.0 White 1.0 Cath 1.0 Black -2.1 Hispanic -2.4 Prot -3.0 Asians + Jews = 44% of students