(warning, controversial material, I don't neccesarily support these viewpoints) +OK 3439 octets Received: from smtp06.nwnexus.com (smtp06.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.45]) by mail3.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09406 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onn.pair.com (onn.pair.com [209.68.1.67]) by smtp06.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29911 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by onn.pair.com (8.9.1/8.6.12) id NAA11706; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:53:56 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:53:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: arthurhu@halcyon.com Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <19990429175225.14721.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [206.231.84.10] From: "James Igoe" To: upstream-list@cycad.com Subject: Re: [Upstream] Population Specific Alleles Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:52:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: upstream-list@cycad.com Reply-To: upstream-list@cycad.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1835 X-Loop: upstream-list@cycad.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: upstream-list-request@cycad.com Status: I've read, from various resources, that the correlation between intelligence and lightness of skin color among blacks is about .3. I've also read that admixture studies do not show any correlation between degree of skin racial admixture (B/W) and intelligence. does anyone have nay relevant information. Regards, James ----Original Message Follows---- I would like to add this article to my collection: Parra et al (1998). "Estimating African American Admixture Proportions by Use of Population-Specific Alleles". Am. J. Hum. Genet., 63:1839-1851 The article is available in .pdf format on the web at: [http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/contents/v63n6.html] but the full text is only available to those domains with a subscription. A list of institutional subscribers is available at: http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/AJHG-reg-list.html Thank you for any help you can provide John K. --- This is a message from the Upstream mailing list. Visit the Upstream Website at http://cycad.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/ Visit the Upstream Mailing List archives at http://cycad.com/upstream-list-archive To subscribe to this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject subscribe To unsubscribe from this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject unsubscribe _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com --- This is a message from the Upstream mailing list. Visit the Upstream Website at http://cycad.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/ Visit the Upstream Mailing List archives at http://cycad.com/upstream-list-archive To subscribe to this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject subscribe To unsubscribe from this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject unsubscribe . +OK 3883 octets Received: from smtp06.nwnexus.com (smtp06.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.45]) by mail3.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA19327 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onn.pair.com (onn.pair.com [209.68.1.67]) by smtp06.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA30635 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 19:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by onn.pair.com (8.9.1/8.6.12) id WAA29885; Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:55:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: arthurhu@halcyon.com Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <003301be92b4$9eb84e80$12d694ce@quantex> From: "Albert Himoe" To: References: <19990429175225.14721.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Population Specific Alleles Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:52:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: upstream-list@cycad.com Reply-To: upstream-list@cycad.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1836 X-Loop: upstream-list@cycad.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: upstream-list-request@cycad.com Status: James Igoe writes: > I've read, from various resources, that the correlation between > intelligence and lightness of skin color among blacks is about .3. > I've also read that admixture studies do not show any correlation > between degree of skin racial admixture (B/W) and intelligence. does > anyone have nay relevant information. One paper which is often quoted to this is effect is Scarr S et al. (1977). Absence of a relationship between degree of white ancestry and intellectual skills within a black population. Human Genetics 39, 69-86. Basically, by measuring 12 genetic markers from blood samples of 181 black Philadelphians who were taking a cognitive test, Scarr et al. estimated an "odds" index of Caucasian ancestry, and concluded that most Caucasian third of the population was not significantly different than the least Caucasian third of the population, although in fact, the most Cuacasian third did score better than the least Caucasian third. Jensen discussed this experiment on p. 480-1 and p. 526 [long footnote] of "The 'g' Factor". Jensen, with help from an unnamed professor of quantiative genetics at UC-Berkeley concludes that the experiment cannot exclude any reasonable relationship between racial admixture and IQ--in other words. it is completely meaningless--a conclusion I also came to from reading Scarr's paper. One point is that recent more sophisticated measurements of the Philadelphia black population indicated only about 12% white admixture vs. the 25% Scarr et al. assumed, so it is likely that Scarr et al. overestimated the white admixture in their sample, which would have the effect of making her results even less definitive than she assumed. In this same section, Jensen gives the value .27 as the correlation between skin color and white gene admixture in blacks [no reference given]. Albert Himoe --- This is a message from the Upstream mailing list. Visit the Upstream Website at http://cycad.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/ Visit the Upstream Mailing List archives at http://cycad.com/upstream-list-archive To subscribe to this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject subscribe To unsubscribe from this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject unsubscribe . +OK 3429 octets Received: from smtp00.nwnexus.com (smtp00.nwnexus.com [192.135.191.25]) by mail3.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA02357 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onn.pair.com (onn.pair.com [209.68.1.67]) by smtp00.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18447 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 05:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by onn.pair.com (8.9.1/8.6.12) id IAA13199; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:55:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: arthurhu@halcyon.com Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:06:56 +0100 To: upstream-list@cycad.com From: Chris Brand Subject: Re: [Upstream] Population Specific Alleles In-Reply-To: <19990429175225.14721.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Resent-Message-ID: <0hXjQC.A.1KD.WfaK3@onn.pair.com> Resent-From: upstream-list@cycad.com Reply-To: upstream-list@cycad.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1838 X-Loop: upstream-list@cycad.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: upstream-list-request@cycad.com Status: >I've read, from various resources, that the correlation between >intelligence and lightness of skin color among blacks is about .3. >I've also read that admixture studies do not show any correlation >between degree of skin racial admixture (B/W) and intelligence. does >anyone have nay relevant information. > A problem is that much of the White impregnation of Black women in the past may have been by Whites who were themselves of low IQ (working on slaving estates, etc.). Arthur Jensen's 1998 'The g Factor: the Science of Mental Ability' contains the last full consideration of the matter in its Chapter 12 (pp. 418-530). The most interesting bit of ARJ's lengthy discussion is that Sandra Scarr (Virginia) seems to be sitting on relevant data which she won't release to ARJ. Interestingly, to deny a link between Whiteness and intelligence is to insult the intelligence of virtually the entire population of South and Central America and the West Indies.... SUMMER EXAM: 'It is only in science that no-one believes negritude uncorrelated with IQ.' DISCUSS. Chris Brand Edinburgh. Author of 'The 'g' Factor' [Wiley DePublisher, 1996]. For overview, CV, psychology articles and access to McDougall NewsLetters [for neoliberalism], see http://www.crispian.dem on.co.uk. -- "If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. -- You can still call him vile names." Elbert Hubbard (American writer, publisher and lecturer, 1856-1915). -- --- This is a message from the Upstream mailing list. Visit the Upstream Website at http://cycad.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/ Visit the Upstream Mailing List archives at http://cycad.com/upstream-list-archive To subscribe to this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject subscribe To unsubscribe from this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject unsubscribe . +OK 3490 octets Received: from smtp06.nwnexus.com (smtp06.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.45]) by mail3.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA10642 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onn.pair.com (onn.pair.com [209.68.1.67]) by smtp06.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA21371 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by onn.pair.com (8.9.1/8.6.12) id LAA27552; Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:48:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Envelope-To: arthurhu@halcyon.com Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <003e01be9320$a5707600$b6ec2599@cia> From: "Ken Hirsch" To: Subject: Re: [Upstream] Population Specific Alleles Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:46:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-From: upstream-list@cycad.com Reply-To: upstream-list@cycad.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1840 X-Loop: upstream-list@cycad.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: upstream-list-request@cycad.com Status: Chris Brand wrote: >>I've read, from various resources, that the correlation between >>intelligence and lightness of skin color among blacks is about .3. >>I've also read that admixture studies do not show any correlation >>between degree of skin racial admixture (B/W) and intelligence. does >>anyone have nay relevant information. >> >A problem is that much of the White impregnation of Black women in the >past may have been by Whites who were themselves of low IQ (working on >slaving estates, etc.). While this may be true, it is still likely that they had a higher IQ than the blacks, if we are to judge by today's African studies. Hereditarians usually explain the fact that black American's IQ is higher than Africans by the fact of interbreeding. If this is true, we would still expect a correlation. The main problem, I think, is the loss of correlation via genes crossing over chromosomes, as indicated by the low inter-correlation of the various Caucasian blood markers. I've thought that this problem might in principle be overcome by a large enough sample and more markers--such as the PSAs in this article. I've always meant to look into the mathematics behind this, but who has the time? Of course funding such a study would be problematic. >Interestingly, to deny a link between Whiteness and intelligence is to >insult the intelligence of virtually the entire population of South and >Central America and the West Indies.... I don't understand this sentence. Can you explain? --- This is a message from the Upstream mailing list. Visit the Upstream Website at http://cycad.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/ Visit the Upstream Mailing List archives at http://cycad.com/upstream-list-archive To subscribe to this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject subscribe To unsubscribe from this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject unsubscribe . Date forwarded: Sat, 1 May 1999 11:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Date sent: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:50:21 +0100 To: upstream-list@cycad.com From: Chris Brand Subject: Re: [Upstream] Population Specific Alleles Forwarded by: upstream-list@cycad.com Send reply to: upstream-list@cycad.com >to deny a link between Whiteness and intelligence is to >>insult the intelligence of virtually the entire population of South and >>Central America and the West Indies.... > > >I don't understand this sentence. Can you explain? > Sorry, Ken, I was merely referring to what one gathers is the widely held belief among South Americans etc. that white is bright. Indians too have the same belief (perhaps because the aboriginal Dravidian population was squeezed towards the south by the Caucasian invaders). There again, science has been no help at all. Despite India being the world's biggest English-speaking country, and now having deliverable nuclear bombs, no systematic work on measured intelligence has ever been undertaken. (Arthur Jensen once sabaticalled there when his daughter married an Indian, but does not seem to have produced such [doubtless pretty scrappy] material as he was able to collect.) The failure of twentieth-century Western psychologists to measure worldwide the only interesting human attribute that psychology has been able to measure objectively will one day seem very strange. -- It will provide a wondrous token of the cowardice of tenured intellectuals, and the reason for what will have been, by then, the dissolution of the universities. Chris Brand Edinburgh. Author of 'The 'g' Factor' [Wiley DePublisher, 1996]. For overview, CV, psychology articles and access to McDougall NewsLetters [for neoliberalism], see http://www.crispian.dem on.co.uk. -- "If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost. -- You can still call him vile names." Elbert Hubbard (American writer, publisher and lecturer, 1856-1915). -- --- This is a message from the Upstream mailing list. Visit the Upstream Website at http://cycad.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/ Visit the Upstream Mailing List archives at http://cycad.com/upstream-list-archive To subscribe to this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject subscribe To unsubscribe from this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject unsubscribe