+OK 4487 octets Received: from smtp05.nwnexus.com (smtp05.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.43]) by mail1.halcyon.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17088 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from onn.pair.com (onn.pair.com [209.68.1.67]) by smtp05.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01815 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:49:16 -0800 Received: (from slist@localhost) by onn.pair.com (8.9.1/8.6.12) id AAA19884; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:48:35 -0500 (EST) Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:48:35 -0500 (EST) X-Envelope-To: arthurhu@halcyon.com Old-X-Envelope-To: Message-ID: <001c01be6ea7$1b844680$53ee2599@cia> From: "Clyde Bruckman" To: "upstream" Subject: Re: [Upstream] Mau-Mauing the Dogcatcher:Is it racist to dislike a dachshund? Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:45:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"buowlC.A.kzE.76J72"@onn.pair.com> Resent-From: upstream-list@cycad.com Reply-To: upstream-list@cycad.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1614 X-Loop: upstream-list@cycad.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: upstream-list-request@cycad.com Status: arthur hu wrote: >I take it the upstream position is that people are just as >genetically different as dogs are, or perhaps only to a lesser >degree? This is an interesting question. The reason I posted this article was amusement that there are people who deny the biological reality of even the very characteristics for which the dogs have been specifically bred! Whether human races are comparable to dog breeds is a question I've been meaning to investigate ever since I read somebody--Matt Nuenke, I think--comparing the reactions to "The Bell Curve" and "The Intelligence of Dogs." I've looked up some data this week and here is what I've found. Dog breeds are much more homogeneous genetically than are human races. Thus the article is correct that stereotypes can be more accurately applied to dog breeds than to races. Stereotypes may be statistical truths about races, but the variation among individuals within a race is so large that it is often--perhaps usually--inaccurate to apply the stereotype to an individual. On the other hand, the genetic distance between dog breeds is smaller than the genetic distance between races--at least as far as I have been able to find so far. In Zajc et al., 1997, distances are given among three breeds of dogs: grey hounds, german shepherds, and labrador retrievers. The distances are 0.028, 0.031, and 0.054. By contrast, in Kimmel et al., 1996, these distances are about the same as those between populations within larger racial groupings. For example, the distance between Japanese and Chinese samples is .029. The difference between populations of different racial groups is much larger--in the 0.087 to .363 range. Both of these studies calculate distances using microsatellites and as far as I can tell the distance measures they use are comparable. Obviously, there are specific phenotypic differences in dogs--overall size and relative size of body parts--that vary much more than any physical characteristic in humans of which I'm aware. It just goes to show that small differences in genes can make for large differences in the phenotype. Kimmel M, et al. Dynamics of repeat polymorphisms under a forward-backward mutation model: within- and between-population variability at microsatellite loci. Genetics. 1996 May;143(1):549-55. Zajc I, et al. Variability of canine microsatellites within and between different dog breeds. Mamm Genome. 1997 Mar;8(3):182-5. --- This is a message from the Upstream mailing list. Visit the Upstream Website at http://cycad.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/ Visit the Upstream Mailing List archives at http://cycad.com/upstream-list-archive To subscribe to this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject subscribe To unsubscribe from this list send email to the address upstream-list-request@cycad.com with just the subject unsubscribe .