\doc\web\99\05\brit.txt Send reply to: "Ian Pitchford" From: "Ian Pitchford" To: Date sent: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:13:50 -0000 Subject: [h-bd] UK Blacks and Moslems Just a couple of comments on contributions from Arthur Hu and Steve Sailer: Arthur Hu wrote: I just ran into this, any thoughts as to why UK blacks have such a high intermarriage rate? And why so few blacks make it to the top? _______ REPLY: Blacks constitute only 0.9 per cent of the population in the UK, and have been established in appreciable numbers only since 1948; they also tend to be distributed throughout the population as a whole, with very few living in areas having a black majority. To some extent black people and the working class in Britain also share an anti-Establishment counter-culture, which can provide an overlap of worldviews and values. Though this is slightly simplistic these factors could contribute towards an explanation of both of your questions. It's likely that a black person will meet many compatible white partners, and that the average black person will share in common with average working class people a tendency to subscribe to the abolition of privilege rather than a fairly unrealistic desire to attain it. I haven't seen any figures since the eighties, but at that time over 70 per cent of those in the higher reaches of government, the civil service, the judiciary, and the armed forces were from a typical Eton--------->Oxbridge background. Britain is still much less of a meritocracy than the US. ____________________ Steve Sailer wrote: South Asians came to the UK in dense enough numbers to form close-knit communities, which enforce cultural norms that aren't all economically effective. In the US, however, Indians tend to form merely networks far flung across the leading universities, corporations, hospitals, consulting firms, and the like. Finally, I think there a higher percentage of Moslem South Asians in the UK than in the US. Hindus seem to be able to make the big leap to Western modernity better than Moslems. I don't know why this is, but I sense little among Hindus of the resentment of modernity so characteristic of Moslems these days. ___________ REPLY: The most recent figure I have for the Moslem population of the UK is 2,135, 000 (3. 7 percent), with the largest single group being those of Pakistani origin. Moslem groups have a great concern with ethnic and religious identity which constrains their activities, and participation in wider society and the economy, in a number of ways. For example, there is a great debate amongst Moslems here as to whether it is legitimate at all for them to take part in kufr society (including such things as local and national government), and also there is a concern with Halal (lawful) versus Haram (unlawful) activities. Many of the investment practices of Western banks and companies are regarded as Haram because they charge interest and support non-Moslem practices. Pakistanis in particular have attempted to remain a coherent group by setting up their own businesses and banks, and try wherever possible to employ their own kin. Some bright children will even be dissuaded from going to university, unless they intend to enter acceptable high-status professions such as medicine and the law. The emphasis on cultural continuity also means that Pakistani children will be expected to speak English at school, but Urdu at home, and Arabic at the Mosque. They may also be expected to have a knowledge of Hindi, Punjabi and Gujerati, but this additional educational burden isn't acknowledged by the National Curriculum at all. This desire for separateness has been acknowledged by the Government which has begun to provide funding for single-sex Moslem schools, and it's likely that Moslems will continue to have an emphasis on identity rather than integration. Regards Ian Pitchford Centre for Psychotherapeutic Studies Department of Psychiatry University of Sheffield, S10 2TA, UK http://www.human-nature.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups Spotlight: "Loads" - A "truckstop" support group for trucker families. http://offers.egroups.com/click/243/3 eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/h-bd Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com