\doc\web\98\10\ukalevel.txt (asking about high school->college/work in uk) From: "James Hughes" To: Subject: Education system in Uk Date sent: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:37:41 -0000 > In yr10 you start your GCSE's usually about 10. The pass mark is a C. Some > subjects are compulsory ie english and maths and a foreign language. Then to > do a levels you must have passed 5 GCSE's at grades A-C. The grades for GCSE > range from A* to F. The cleverest ppl get all A*'s. Most ppl choose to do 3 > A-levels, these are alot harder tna GCSE's. The course lasts for 2 yrs the > same goes for GCSE's. When you get your a-levels you go to university. The > grades you can get at alevel range from a-e. The best uni's will want 3 A's. > The worst will want 2 E's. If you want any clarification just ask. > > jimhughes@bigfoot.com > From: "Martin Skipper" To: Subject: Re: What's difference: GCSE, GCE, A-level, NVQ Date sent: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:26:49 -0000 Don't know if this helps but.... You do your GCSEs over a two year course. If you do well (3 A*-Cs) then you go to college and do A-levels (normally three), if not you may go onto do a GNVQ or NVQ at a tech or similar but most go into full-time employment or re-takes. The GNVQ and NVQs are practical courses that area bit less than a GCSE or an A-Level. If you do A-levels you normally go on to university to do a Degree, if not then you learn your specialised subject.... Ellie Thanks. So does GCE= A-level? What happens to students who do not go to university or get bad grades on the GCSE? Does the student exit anyway at 10th year, or continue 2 years and get some other credential? What is this I'm reading that the NVQ A-levels are meant to be just as prestigious as the GCE, but nobody is buying it? How well accepted is this notion of A-levels for the university bound, and NVQ is for everybody else that does not do well on the A-levels. What's this about GCSE being used to predict GCE grades, but the GCSE is not supposed to be for college placement? How do top universities pick out students from all A* students? In the US, our SAT scores even at MIT or Harvard typically range from 700-800 even for the top 1%. Only 2 or 3 students the nation get perfect 800s. Does the A-level give numerical scores with this much resolution? From: "Matthew Bennett" To: Subject: Re: What's difference: GCSE, GCE, A-level, NVQ Date sent: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:00:03 -0000 Hi, I'm currently doing 4 (Physics, Chemistry, Maths and Further Maths) A-levels, and 1 (Electronics) AS-level at Godalming College. Here are the basic things that happen: Compulsory: Primary school-->Middle school-->Secondary school At the end of Secondary school (aged 15-16) you do your GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) exams (normally taking 9-11 in total, according to how many subjects you're doing). Non-compulsory, Higher Education: -->College After doing your GCSEs, you either stay on for two more years at your secondary school's "sixth form", or you go to a college for two years. Both do just the same thing. You can either do (normally 2-4) A-levels (if you achieved relatively good GCSEs, but you normally only need a grade 'C' or above in the A-level subject at GCSE to do it), or you can do a GNVQ / NVQ (General National Vocational Qualification), which is aimed more towards specific careers, instead of subjects. An Advanced GNVQ is the same as taking two A-levels. There are quite a few other things you can also take, such as AS-levels (Advanced Supplementary, same as half an A-level) or RSA (qualification recognised by businesses, such as IT). --->University Obviously here you then normally do a degree, or some other form of "high" qualification(s). You'd normally need A,A,B A-levels, but sometimes C,C,B or something is accepted as well (depending on what course you want to do). I'm not sure what happens with GNVQs. Adults (as opposed to the 16-19 year olds) can also do many of the courses available at colleges (such as A-levels and RSAs) normally through evening lessons or at home after work. All students in the last couple of years of Secondary school are given careers advice and support. Some students leave Secondary school and go straight into a company's training scheme or everyday work, though this is not normally the case in most areas. One of the main points you seems to have misunderstood is that "you do *this* if you're stupid, *this* if you're bright" etc. This is certainly not the case. You could achieve really excellent GCSE results, and still do GNVQ course(s). Or, you could get fairly poor GCSE results and do A-levels. You can also quite happily do a mixture of both. True, the general feeling is high GCSEs normally follow onto A-levels, and low ones follow on to GNVQs. But this is only because the person would *rather* do GNVQs (they didn't enjoy just "subjects" such as Physics or English, and would rather do a more "practical" course such as Leisure and Tourism). This is certainly not because they have to. Hope that helps, and do feel free to e-mail me if you'd like any more information. Best regards, Matt Send reply to: <@breathe.co.uk> From: "A.Dickson" To: Subject: Re: What's difference: GCSE, GCE, A-level, NVQ Date sent: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:12:49 -0000 A GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) is what you do when you are about 16! You do it at secondary school (hence the secondary bit). Secondary school is for 11 to 16 year olds! Results vary from A* to U, A* being the best!(a*,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,u {U = failed}) Grades between A* and C are seen as good, and are normally what is needed in things like maths and english, but not always! Most people have a lot of these, for instance I have 9! (5 b, 3c and 1 f (but that was for german) With the GCSE's u then do an A-level which is known as a GCE (General Certificate of Education) A-levels vary from A to U as well! This then works on a point system! A = 10 B = 8 C = 6 D = 4 E = 2 U = 0 Or u can do a AS level, which is half a A-level, and therefore half the point (a = 5, b = 4 etc) A NVQ comes in a variety of levels, but specialises on one particualar thing! NVQ (National Vocational Qualification) You do not do an exam, u just do all of the work and get it marked! I have a NVQ level 2 in Using Information Technology! A NVQ level 2 is the same as 4 GCSE's at level c or above (but many people think it isn't) U have to not only do the work to get the qualification, but show written skills, presentation skills and work well with others etc! NVQ level 3 destinction is the same as an A-level! (Grade can be either, fail, pass, merit or destinction?(I think, but not totally sure)) Then there are GNVQ's, (General National Vocational Qualification) You need to show presentaion skills,and your grade is judged on almost all of your work, not just a couple of exams like with other qualifications! Same marking sceme as a NVQ (I think), where a merit is classed as 2 a-levels! Once got all of the A-levels or NVQ's ect, u go to college or university! You can study your a-levels, nvq, gnvq at college anyway, and thinks like hairdressing require not much in the way in gcse's! You are likely to do hairdressing as a nvq, as it is not possible as a a-level, as it is marked on your work, and other things, not your ability in an exam, with a couple of pieces of coursework! At university u study towards a degree (varies what type, depending on the subject) U need your a-levels (or NVQ, GNVQ) to get in! Cambridge is about 28 points, and is the highest (only 3 subjects can be used to get in with a-levels, normally only 1 GNVQ and 1 a-level combined!) So that is 2 A's and 1 B at a-level (very difficult) They normally want 3a's and high GCSE scores aswell! The majority of universities are around 14- 20 points, but it depends on the subject! Some colleges do degrees aswell! You can get in with 2 points at a-level, and some u don't need any points (they are colleges), but the higher the points the better the degree u will probably get! Degrees are then either: 1 - (Amazing, can't beat it) 2:1 - Good 2:2 - Okay 3:1 - You might be happy with it 3:2 - You have just scraped through 3:3 - How lucky were you, wuite clearly you have done no work, and got lucky! I think that that is how they go! My brother got a '1', and he got 18 points at a-level, but he did loads of work, and should have got a higher mark at a-level! After his GCSE results, he was expected to go to cambridge! To summerise: (on same line, means about the same qualification) NVQ GCSE - NVQ LEVEL 2 A-Level - NVQ level 3 - GNVQ NVQ Level 4 DEGREE From: "Matthew Bennett" To: Subject: Re: What's difference: GCSE, GCE, A-level, NVQ Date sent: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:52:32 -0000 >So far, you win the prize for best explanation. Some questions.. Yikes.. wonder what the others were like ;) >What's AS again? As I explained later on, it means "Advanced Supplimentory" and is equivilant to half an A-level. >Is the "sixth form" in high school? Is College simply what we >would call G11 and G12 in US high school? In the US, you >don't do 2 years of community college unless you finish 12 >years of high school. CCs are basically 2 year colleges, but >you can transfer to 4 year. When you say "high school", I assume you're meaning Secondary school here... The answer to your first question is "sometimes" ;) Depending on how big the school is, some will have a sixth form, and some won't. Those that don't, their students go to a college instead. Colleges do exactly the same thing as sixth forms, but are separate places (as opposed to just being additions to an existing school). School sixth forms and college sixth forms ("sixth form" simply meaning the two years after Secondary school) both have their advantages and disadvantages from a students' point of view... personally, I'm pleased I'm going to a new place (as I go to a college) as it's a change of scene, and I think they treat you more like adults than a school would. But the education is the same for both. If by G11 and G12 you're talking about two year groups (grades?) then yes - this is all the sixth form is (and no, I'm not entirely sure *why* it's called a sixth form ;). I'm afraid not sure what you mean when you say "community college".... Also, it is compulsory to finish your 12 years of education, so obviously everyone then has the option of going to a sixth form afterwards. It is also possible to stay on an extra year at college (to make it 3 years) if you feel you could benifit from re-taking your first year of sixth form for whatever reason (though this is not often the case). >In the US, there is 1 high school, but generally tracks for >those who want to work (consumer math, metal working, >drafting), and those who want to go on to college (algebra, trig, >precalculus, physics, chem) Right - so do our Secondary schools. They aim to provide support and information for whatever choice you wish to make after leaving, be that "real" work or further education. As well as GCSEs, GNVQs can also be taken at Secondary school (but normally at a lower level) for those wanting to go into work, or to continue with GNVQs at college. However, don't forget students can do any combination of GCSEs and GNVQs and still be accepted to continue education in college (though GCSEs are certainly the most popular choice for Secondary school students). >4 year colleges are the lower rung, the best colleges are >called universities, I still don't know what the difference is. >ex. California State College is 1st 4year state college >system, University of California is top tier. This is where the US and UK terminology gets a bit confusing ;) For the UK, a college is a place where students do their sixth form, regardless of the quality of education offered there etc. A university is the place you go to *after* college, to continue even more with your education (such as earning a degree), and is always called a university. 16-19 year old go to a college, 19+ year olds go to university. >So you don't have to stay after age 16? Indeed. Though this is uncommon, you do not legally have to stay in education after the age of 16 (i.e. at the end of your last year of Secondary school, after doing your GCSEs). >So what is the difference between college and sixth form. There is no difference - a college educates students as a sixth form, or a school can have a sixth-form "added on" to it. It's just the way you say it - you don't say, "my school has a college", you say "my school has a sixth form".. However, if your school does not have one and you go to a college, "you are in a sixth form at college". I suppose it sounds a little confusing, but I've never really thought about it ;) >What's GCE? General Certificate of Education. It's a slightly old term, but it's used to describe a GCSE that was *not* taken at a Secondary school. For example, an adult gets a GCE in Maths, and a student gets a GCSE in Maths. The educational standard is the same, but with the "S" of Secondary taken out. >Does everyone who completes compulsory education get a diploma >or is there a minimal GCSE score you must get? No, you don't get a big certificate saying "well done, you've left school" ;) However, you do get a certificate saying what GCSE results you've achieved. Hope that helps clear things up, but again - do feel free to ask about anything else. Please remember though, I'm not exactly a professional education spokesman, so what I say may not be necessarily correct - though with the amount of talks and "helpful booklets" we get on this sort of thing, as well as the fact that I myself am a student, I'm pretty sure I've got it right :) Best regards, Matt Thanks again. You know anything about the old sheeps and goats 11+ division system? So most students continue on to grades 11 and 12, and most don't try the A-levels. In the US, the concept is that you won't get a diploma or be allowed to continue without a "pass" grade on the exit exam. We're told this is world class. The exams are set so that typically 50% - 70% fail when the test is introduced, but they promise that once "reforms" take hold everyone will pass by the time they are really required 5-7 years from the start. Sounds like a scam to me. So in the UK, you just get your grade and move on? No "everyone must achieve at the highest international standard" or you don't get a diploma? What do you get at the end of 12 years? From: "mcnee" To: Subject: Re: [education-consumers] UK test goal targets Date sent: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:17:44 -0000 As you probably know, my concern is that children should learn to read, get it right first time, and on infant reading rests all else. This alone keeps me more than busy. I am a bit aware of all the other endless changes. Politicians simply create endless frameworks, to deal with every eventuality, but they do not have the live bodies to get it right. They just arrange (and pay) "bums on seats", and think that publicity for some extra spending every other week will get them votes. They have no idea what is really needed or what they should be doing. But the one constant is that the SAME people get responsibility for making all the changes - which minimises the changes before you start. As I said, whatever is being changed on one side of the Atlantic will get changed before long on the other. Tweddledum and Tweedledee. Taht is why I think it is all a response to pressure from behind the scenes, New World Order. Sex apart, I think Clinton and Hillary should be impeached for what they have done to education (and the corresponding calls on taxpayers to fund it all) alone. I am sure it would take me weeks to investigate all the exam. questions you riase, so - sorry - I must bow out of this one. Mona. From: "James Hughes" To: Subject: Re: Education system in Uk Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 01:18:06 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: arthur hu To: James Hughes Cc: education-consumers@ripple.dundee.net ; fredb001@spectra.net ; wa-ed-deform@egroups.com Date: 17 December 1998 20:47 Subject: Re: Education system in Uk (asking about high school->college/work in uk) Thanks. So does GCE= A-level? yes What happens to students who do not go to university or get bad grades on the GCSE? Does the student exit anyway at 10th year, or continue 2 years and get some other credential? there's the option of retaking/repeating GCSE's. Some ppl do not want to go to uni. they try and find a job. if they do it is usually a blue collar job. GCSE's last 2 years. you start in yr10 and take the exams in yr11. What is this I'm reading that the NVQ A-levels are meant to be just as prestigious as the GCE, but nobody is buying it? NVQ stands for National Vocational Qualification. There are also GNVQ's ppl usually take these because they do not have the grades to do a-levels. If 2 ppl were applying for a job and one had a-levels and the other had GNVQ's to equal value the employer would choose the person with a-levels. How well accepted is this notion of A-levels for the university bound, and NVQ is for everybody else that does not do well on the A-levels. I'm not sure about NVQ's but some uni's do not accept GNVQ's as a qualification What's this about GCSE being used to predict GCE grades, but the GCSE is not supposed to be for college placement? If some1 gets striaght A's for their GCSE's then it is likely that they will get 3 A's at a-level. so yes gce's are used in a way to predict a-level results. Only the very best universities will differentiate between students gcse results. so many ppl apply so there has to be another filter aswell as the a-level results. most uni's want 5 or more passes at gcse c or above. How do top universities pick out students from all A* students? In the US, our SAT scores even at MIT or Harvard typically range from 700-800 even for the top 1%. Only 2 or 3 students the nation get perfect 800s. Does the A-level give numerical scores with this much resolution? In the uk an A represents 10 points. B=8 C=6 D=4 E=2 the best uni's will only accept students with 30 points if you have any more questions just ask From: "James Hughes" To: Subject: Education system in Uk Date sent: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:37:41 -0000 > In yr10 you start your GCSE's usually about 10. The pass mark is a C. > Some subjects are compulsory ie english and maths and a foreign > language. Then to > do a levels you must have passed 5 GCSE's at grades A-C. The grades for GCSE > range from A* to F. The cleverest ppl get all A*'s. Most ppl choose to > do 3 > A-levels, these are alot harder tna GCSE's. The course lasts for 2 yrs > the same goes for GCSE's. When you get your a-levels you go to > university. The grades you can get at alevel range from a-e. The best > uni's will want 3 A's. > The worst will want 2 E's. If you want any clarification just ask. > > jimhughes@bigfoot.com > arthur hu kirkland WA arthurhu@halcyon.com "fairness in diversity" http://www.leconsulting.com/arthurhu From: "Matthew Bennett" To: Subject: Re: What's difference: GCSE, GCE, A-level, NVQ Date sent: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:10:02 -0000 >Thanks again. You know anything about the old sheeps and goats >11+ division system? No problem. The 11+ system? Nope.. sorry, that's a bit before my time ;) >So most students continue on to grades 11 and 12, and most >don't try the A-levels. Huh? Grades 11 and 12 is what I assume you mean as sixth form... Most do indeed go on to sixth form, but the majority of these students *do* take A-levels... GNVQs are fairly popular, but certainly more people take A-levels than anything else at the moment. >In the US, the concept is that you won't get a diploma or be >allowed to continue without a "pass" grade on the exit exam. Erk.. I assume here that they get another chance ;) True, to get into sixth form and study A-levels you do normally need a minimum of 5 A*-C grades... but there is always the option to re-take your GCSEs and/or do another form of education such as GNVQs.... >We're told this is world class. The exams are set so that Well, I'm sure your education system is indeed very good, but I think it's hard to determine what "world class" education is ;) >So in the UK, you just get your grade and move on? No >"everyone must achieve at the highest international standard" >or you don't get a diploma? What do you get at the end of >12 years? It's not exactly a case of "just getting your grade and moving on" no - sorry, I might not have explained that very well last time then... If you're happy with your GCSE results (that's the 10 or so grades you get at the end of 12 years), then yes of course you are free to continue to higher education. If you did not do as well as you would have liked to though, you have the option to redo your GCSE course(s) and try again, or continue into GNVQs etc. So far as I'm aware, the incentive to achieve great grades is not to win some sort of international education league or "beat the international community". The incentives for doing well is so we can eventually get a (preferably) well paid job doing something we enjoy. It's certainly all about doing what *you* want to do for *yourself* in order to enjoy your life... I've never sensed anything "political" at all about being educated, and (for me at least) "being better at maths than someone in France" would have been pretty much irrelevant. I worked hard and got the grades I wanted because the subjects interested me and I wanted to do an "intellectual" and worthwhile job at the end of it. (I got A*A*A*A*AAAAAB GCSE grades, and would finally like to do some form of scientific research, though into what I'm not totally sure yet ;). I was not aware of people being told "you WILL do well" - though they were certainly told "do the very best you can". We certainly weren't as it were "threatened" by not getting some sort of certificate at the end - it was up to us to do well to benefit ourselves, but we were given the options to have another chance if you think you can do better. At the end of 12 years you get nationally recognised GCSE grades, and the freedom to start doing what you want in your life (which for the most people is continuing with higher education). Hope that helps, but feel free to bug me again ;) Best regards, Matt What course (career) are you wanting to do? I'm a software engineer, graduated from Massachusetts INstitute of Technology with masters degree in 1981 How old are you? I'm 40 Are you planning on coming to England? Been to london for honeymoon in 1989, took the hover ferry, big fan of thomas tank engine and gerry anderson science fiction, wallace and grommit, know about london taxi and morris mini cars What city? Seattle Washington, nearby microsoft. Where in America are you at? Pacific Northwest I am hopefully going to do International Business Studies, so in a couple of years I might get to spend time in either America or Canada, or another english speaking country! I'm figuring out othe nation's education systems to help figure out what the heck they're trying to do to the US system which works fine, but reformers want to meddle with it. Is there one GCSE given nationally or does each school give its own version of the test? Do you only get one grade for each test? US tests have a numberical score based on where you rank compared with others, newer "performance based" tests resemble the UK tests, but so far are notoriously unreliable and subjectively scored. Are there similar criticisms of GCSE tests which appear to be subjectively scored? Send reply to: <@breathe.co.uk> From: "A.Dickson" To: Subject: Re: What's difference: GCSE, GCE, A-level, NVQ Date sent: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:23:14 -0000 ---------- > From: arthur hu > To: jam.aw@breathe.co.uk > Subject: Re: What's difference: GCSE, GCE, A-level, NVQ > Date: 18 December 1998 00:07 > > Ummm, I'm still trying to get it, but this is a big help! > > What happens to people who get lower or average gcse's, do they > go to a college? Who stops at age 16? Do university bound kids > stay in school? What's a college vs university? Do they have > 2 yr universities? What do you get after age 16? Does it depend on > the gCSE score? > > Geez, that's an amazingly complex system compared to the US! Sixth Form is education after GCSE's, it is part of the school, and is finished when you are 18! You can either go to sixth form or college! Average GCSE's might get you into sixth form so that A-levels, NVQ level 3 or a GNVQ can be done! Low GCSE's can get you into a NVQ level 2 or 3, or a GNVQ! You need about 4 C's to get into sixthform, and anything to get into college! (On average you do 9 GCSE's) At 16 you take your GCSE's, everyone does it apart from very very very stupid people (No offensive to stupid people)! I got a F in German, and I only knew about 20 different words, and could count to 15! University bound kids do normally stay in school (known as sixthform), but you have a equally good chance if you go to college! Some schools do not have sixth forms, either becasue of not enough demand, or not enough teachers or space! There is not much difference between sixth form and college, only u normally need a ste level of grades to get in to a sixthform! A college is a place where u can go straight after GCSE's (ie when u are 16) A university is a place where u can go after A-levels, or a GNVQ (ie when u are 18) U must be atleast 18 to go to university! Universities require higher grades than colleges if u want to study a degree! Minimum is 2 points (1 E at a-level), however there are not many that low! Average is between 14 and 18 points, depending on the subject! A degree is a very good thing to have! College, will accept anyone, but u have to be atleaast 18 to study for a degree! Only certain colleges offer a degree program, and universities ONLY offer a degree program! Some courses are only 2yr, but they are not common, and are normally either a top up on an existing degree, or they are classed as a not particularly good degree! There are different degrees available, depending on the subject, but also there are some degrees which are techniqually not as good as a full degree (if I find an example then I will e-mail you, as it is very confussing)! After 16 you can do A-level, get a job, GNVQ, a NVQ, fast foward {Youth Training} (a job (low pay) and a qualification ,normally a NVQ), sit around the house and do nothing, or retake your GCSE's. GCSE scores doesn't affect university places that much, as long as you get good a-level or GNVQ etc! The only time when it does count is either when applying to Oxford or Cambridge university (You need about 7A's, and a couple of B's) Also if it came down to the crunch between you and another person for a university course, then this would probably be used, so the hgiher the better! Also certain jobs require certain GCSE's. U may require a C in English and maths for a certain job, and some university courses require GCSE Maths and English at grade B or C! Also to study abroad, u need a relevant foreign language GCSE (so to study in france, u need french at grade b in GCSE) Hope that this is off some help, I know it is difficult to understand, and very stupid as there are too many qualifications available at the same level. Anyone can get qualified! A NVQ level 2 course in using information technology is meant to take 1 year, where you spend 3 or 4 days with a company, and one day at college. I did the course in six weeks, one day at the company, 3 days at college, and I was paid £25 a week to do it, and got a hundred pound bonus for passing!!!! What course (career) are you wanting to do? How old are you? Are you planning on coming to England? What city? Where in America are you at? I am hopefully going to do International Business Studies, so in a couple of years I might get to spend time in either America or Canada, or another english speaking country! Send reply to: <@breathe.co.uk> From: "A.Dickson" To: Subject: Re: What's difference: GCSE, GCE, A-level, NVQ Date sent: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:18:58 -0000 ---------- From: arthur hu To: jam.aw@breathe.co.uk Subject: Re: What's difference: GCSE, GCE, A-level, NVQ Date: 21 December 1998 23:13 I'm figuring out othe nation's education systems to help figure out what the heck they're trying to do to the US system which works fine, but reformers want to meddle with it. Is there one GCSE given nationally or does each school give its own version of the test? There are different exam boards, but the grade counts as being the same, nomatter what exam board is used! Some require more coursework etc! Do you only get one grade for each test? Yes! Except for Double Award subjects! This includes things like science, where double or even tripple award is available, so you could get b,b, or b,b,b! US tests have a numberical score based on where you rank compared with others, newer "performance based" tests resemble the UK tests, but so far are notoriously unreliable and subjectively scored. Are there similar criticisms of GCSE tests which appear to be subjectively scored? Depending on the score, the grade is then set, but a 'A' will always be high! If everyone that took the test got 50% at maximum, then it is unlikely that the grade would be altered (i.e everyone would get a 'c' or a 'd') but 'a' is normally about 85%, only varies a little bit! The only problem occurs when people say that one GCSE is better than another (but it happens in most cases), as people see technologhy as easy, but history as difficult, but the grade is worth the same! However it is there fault for taking history if it is so difficult, and it depends on what type of person they are! Employers will tend to look at Maths and English before anything else! Also the gap between GCSE and A-level is to much in my oppinion! And everyone always complains about exams getting easier becasue reults are increasing, but if this is A-levels when they are suposed to be easy, I'd hate to have taken them a few years ago when they were seen as being more difficult! There are in my oppionion to many awards that can be gained, and it is easier to get some rather than others! I did a NVQ level 2 in 6 weeks, it was meant to be a 1 year course, and some people say that it is the same as 5 GCSE at grad 'c' or above, whilst others say it is the same as 1 GCSE at 'c' or above! The whole system is messed up, and each award needs to be destinguished at it's own level, as a GNVQ, NVQ level 3 and an A-level are all seen as being the same level of qualification, but they shouldn't be! An A-level is far more difficult than the others, hence the fact that if u are not clever enough to take an A-level, it is recommended that you do a GNVQ, it does not make sense! Anyway merry christmas, I'm going away for a couple of days, so I will e-mail any answers to you as soon as I can!