f:\doc\web\98\07\jewhi.txt In <6tvcdc$ibe$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> arthurhu@halcyon.com writes: > >Technology's 100 richest>>I can only find 4% jews out of this list >Grove, Horowitz, Levy, LevineYou left out at least one. > 4. Larry Ellison, Oracle, $8.20 billion In article <6u1md8$gls@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> jhertzli@ix.netcom.com(Joseph Hertzlinger) writes: >>> 4. Larry Ellison, Oracle, $8.20 billion He was adopted and his Jewish foster dad did not think that he would amount to anything. :-) I Schier author profile email reply view thread post new · post reply subscribe Email: nxrprim@cityline.ru Date: 1998/09/20 Forums: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.asian.american, soc.culture.indian view for bookmarking · text only -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- arthurhu@halcyon.com wrote in message <6tvcdc$ibe$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >Technology's 100 richest > >I can only find 4% jews out of this list >Grove, Horowitz, Levy, Levine You forgot quite a few - Ellison and Dell are both Jewish, and I have sorted out of the list a few more that I suspect are. See below. So, there are 2 more definite Jews - now 6% and as many as 7 more whom I suspect are Jews - would be 13% maximum. Ian > 1 Grove 2 Horowitz 3 Levy 4 Levine 5 Ellison 6 Dell 7 Wilner Garlick - 0 fiddler - 0 kozmetsky - 0 palevsky - 0 artzt - 0 german wilner - 13 topfer - 0 german > > 43. Larry Garlick, Remedy, $140.9 million > > 51. Jerry Fiddler, Wind River Systems, $109.6 >million > > 57. George Kozmetsky, Dell, $102.3 million > > 71. Max Palevsky, Intel, $73.0 million > > 76. Russell M. Artzt, Computer Associates, $67 >million > > 81. David Wilner, Wind River Systems, $63.2 million > > 89. Morton Topfer, Dell, $56.9 million > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message 2 of 15 help return to current results Re: How many Jews in High Tech 100?? more headers << Previous message >> N e x t message Author: Jim Tsou author profile email reply view thread post new · post reply subscribe Email: tsouj@earthlink.net Date: 1998/09/19 Forums: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.asian.american, soc.culture.indian view for bookmarking · text only -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- arthurhu@halcyon.com wrote: > > Technology's 100 richest > > I can only find 4% jews out of this list > Grove, Horowitz, Levy, Levine > > That's only 2x population. > By contrast, there are 4% Chinese and 2% Indians which works out > to 6 and 7 times population. > > Have Jews lost it in high tech? What about in the financial, law, media, and medical fields? As for computer science, it happens to be one of the least popular subjects for American students in general. > For laughs, here is my running comparison, normalized so > that Jewish representation is 1.00. Run a comparison on wealth and the Jews are still the ones to beat. > The chinese win some > and lose some, but the Indians are ahead in everything but > high school grad rate. So in the race for super-minority, > I'd have to say that the Indians are the ones to beat. Actually, only the first generation Indians are the ones to beat. As second and third generation East Asians tend to do better than their predecessors, the Indian counterparts on the other hand tend to becomes much more like the white Americans in general, as evidenced by their lower high school graduation rate. << Previous message >> N e x t message Author: Devadatta Mukutmoni author profile email reply view thread post new · post reply subscribe Email: mukut@panix.com Date: 1998/09/19 Forums: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.asian.american, soc.culture.indian view for bookmarking · text only -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In article <3603B771.2DA6@earthlink.net> tsouj@earthlink.net writes: >Actually, only the first generation Indians are the ones to beat. >As second and third generation East Asians tend to do better than >their predecessors, the Indian counterparts on the other hand >tend to becomes much more like the white Americans in general, as >evidenced by their lower high school graduation rate. How do you know that? Any evidence? I hope this does not degenerate into a Chinese vs Indians mud-fest. To avoid that it would be nice to back your statements with more evidence than the graduation rate, which is still quite high but not #1. I have known many second generation Indians. If anything, they are even more motivated, and more successful. But my evidence is anecdotal. > > In article <3603B771.2DA6@earthlink.net> tsouj@earthlink.net writes: > >Actually, only the first generation Indians are the ones to beat. > >As second and third generation East Asians tend to do better than > >their predecessors, the Indian counterparts on the other hand > >tend to becomes much more like the white Americans in general, as > >evidenced by their lower high school graduation rate. > > How do you know that? Any evidence? From 1995 statistics. > I hope this does not degenerate into a Chinese vs Indians mud-fest. Why would it? I was just pointing out what Mr. Hu wrote could be a little misleading. > To avoid that it would be nice to back your statements with more > evidence than the graduation rate, which is still quite high but not > #1. The point is that there is an education gap between first generation Indians and American born Indians. This is not to say they cannot be successful, just that the trend is the opposite of other East Asians. > I have known many second generation Indians. If anything, they are > even more motivated, and more successful. But my evidence is anecdotal. And my Indian friends lament the fact that second generation Indians are too Americanized and have largely lost their Indian heritage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Devadatta Mukutmoni author profile email reply view thread post new · post reply subscribe Email: mukut@panix.com Date: 1998/09/20 Forums: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.asian.american, soc.culture.indian view for bookmarking · text only -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In article <36040AD5.14DC@earthlink.net> tsouj@earthlink.net writes: >From 1995 statistics. And what does it say? My guess is that they are not going for the advanced degrees as their parents, because they don't need to. They don't need a Green Card. Many of the Indians go for a masters and Ph.D., because that is the only way you could get a job. >The point is that there is an education gap between first generation >Indians and American born Indians. This is not to say they cannot >be successful, just that the trend is the opposite of other East >Asians. Hmm. Have you ever seen the National Spelling Bee Championship? They are all second or third generation Indians competing in there. Indians end up being 4 of the 10 finalists. To be able to do so you would have to be very Motivated. Indians number about 1 to 1.5 Million in the US. To be able to win 40% of the Finalists, you have to be scoring at a level that is way of of proportion to your population. I have to say that the National Spelling Bee has become a niche market for the Indians (just like the motels :-)) The same applies (to a certain lesser extent), to the Westinghouse Science talent competition. In fact for the Westinghouse, leave out the Indians, Orientals and Jewish, there is no one left :-) >And my Indian friends lament the fact that second generation Indians >are too Americanized and have largely lost their Indian heritage. That is probably true. But, they have not lost their motivation. And since they have more opportunities than their parents, they ought to do a lot better. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Tsou author profile email reply view thread post new · post reply subscribe Email: tsouj@earthlink.net Date: 1998/09/20 Forums: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.asian.american, soc.culture.indian view for bookmarking · text only -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Devadatta Mukutmoni wrote: > In article <36040AD5.14DC@earthlink.net> tsouj@earthlink.net writes: > >From 1995 statistics. > > And what does it say? It shows the education level drop off from 1st to 2nd generation. I don't have the exact numbers, but it was an item of note. > My guess is that they are not going for the advanced degrees as > their parents, because they don't need to. They don't need a Green > Card. Many of the Indians go for a masters and Ph.D., because that > is the only way you could get a job. I am sure that could play a major part. > >The point is that there is an education gap between first generation > >Indians and American born Indians. This is not to say they cannot > >be successful, just that the trend is the opposite of other East > >Asians. > > Hmm. Have you ever seen the National Spelling Bee Championship? > They are all second or third generation Indians competing in there. > Indians end up being 4 of the 10 finalists. To be able to do so > you would have to be very Motivated. Indians number about 1 to 1.5 > Million in the US. To be able to win 40% of the Finalists, you have > to be scoring at a level that is way of of proportion to your > population. > > I have to say that the National Spelling Bee has become a > niche market for the Indians (just like the motels :-)) > > The same applies (to a certain lesser extent), to the Westinghouse > Science talent competition. In fact for the Westinghouse, leave out > the Indians, Orientals and Jewish, there is no one left :-) Seems that way. > >And my Indian friends lament the fact that second generation Indians > >are too Americanized and have largely lost their Indian heritage. > > That is probably true. But, they have not lost their motivation. > And since they have more opportunities than their parents, they > ought to do a lot better. I didn't say they were not motivated. I am sure they are achievers, just not super overachiever as their parents were. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sathyan Sundaram author profile email reply view thread post new · post reply subscribe Email: sundaram.15@osu.edu Date: 1998/09/19 Forums: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.asian.american, soc.culture.indian view for bookmarking · text only -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Devadatta Mukutmoni wrote in message <6u0o6a$cto@panix.com>... >In article <3603B771.2DA6@earthlink.net> tsouj@earthlink.net writes: >>Actually, only the first generation Indians are the ones to beat. >>As second and third generation East Asians tend to do better than >>their predecessors, the Indian counterparts on the other hand >>tend to becomes much more like the white Americans in general, as >>evidenced by their lower high school graduation rate. > >How do you know that? Any evidence? >I hope this does not degenerate into a Chinese vs Indians mud-fest. >To avoid that it would be nice to back your statements with more >evidence than the graduation rate, which is still quite high but not >#1. > >I have known many second generation Indians. If anything, they are >even more motivated, and more successful. But my evidence is anecdotal. Assuming the assertion can be substantiated, the explanation for such a generational disparity may be simply in American immigration policies. Labor department certified visas (H1, H2, etc) and graduate/professional school sponsored students have created an disproportionate number of "professional class" first generation Indian Americans. When awarding visas the US can be more selective in obtaining qualified candidates than by natural selection. Or maybe its the American education system... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author: Susan Cohen author profile email reply view thread post new · post reply subscribe Email: zenda@smartNO.SPAMnet Date: 1998/09/20 Forums: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.asian.american, soc.culture.indian view for bookmarking · text only -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Tsou wrote: > arthurhu@halcyon.com wrote: > > > > Technology's 100 richest > > > [snip] > > > For laughs, here is my running comparison, normalized so > > that Jewish representation is 1.00. > > Run a comparison on wealth and the Jews are still the ones to > beat. Not in any country whose statistics I've seen. Susan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph Askew author profile email reply view thread post new · post reply subscribe Email: jaskew@chomsky.arts.adelaide.edu.au Date: 1998/09/20 Forums: soc.culture.jewish, soc.culture.asian.american, soc.culture.indian view for bookmarking · text only -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In article <3604A5B6.2872317D@smartNO.SPAMnet> Susan Cohen writes: >> Run a comparison on wealth and the Jews are still the ones to >> beat. >Not in any country whose statistics I've seen. I'ld prefer not to touch a thread that smacks of Anti-Semitism as much as this one does, but just this once, this is American family income by ethnic group as a percentage of the National average from Thomas Sowell's _Markets and Minorities_ which cites the US Bureau of the Census and the National Jewish Population Study (whatever that is), Jewish 172 Japanese 132 Polish 115 Chinese 112 Italian 112 German 107 Irish 102 Filipino 99 West Indian 94 Mexican 76 Puerto Rican 63 Black 62 Amer. Indian 60 Which on first glance does make it look as if the Jewish community is the one to beat. However it is *family* income so larger families with more family members working probably skews the Chinese figures. And the Jewish figures are biased by *age* as the median ages in the US are, Jewish 46 Polish 40 Irish 37 Italian 36 German 36 Japanese 32 Total US 28 Chinese 27 Black 22 Amer. Indian 20 Mexican 18 Puerto Rican 18 If half the American Jewish community is 46 or over (and the mind boggles at the concept) it is no wonder that the average income is so high. Personally I was surprised the Poles did so well but then prejudice comes in all shapes and sizes. Joseph -- Reason Why I'm Never Going to Get an Academic Job Number Three: "[Monsanto] said that they had carried out 'extensive safety assessments of new biotech crops' including tests using rats that have results published in journals" (http://news.bbc.co.uk) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------