\doc\web\98\03\tornado.txt sci.military.moderated (moderated) #19869 (0 + 129 more) ( )--[1] From: "John T. Kwon" [1] Re: Tornado GR1/GR4......opinions? Organization: CK Analytical Services, Inc. Date: Thu Feb 19 10:40:26 PST 1998 Lines: 83 First, consider the small number of GR.1 aircraft that went "downtown" during the 1991 Gulf War. Compare it to the F-15E. A-6E, and the F-111. Even the F-16C, which went downtown quite a bit. 2 F-15Es were lost during the Gulf War, one to SA-2 fire, and one to AAA. 3 F-111Fs were damaged by AAA. None were lost. 4 A-6Es were damaged, and 3 were lost. (1 by SAM, the others by AAA or unknown) (1 by SAM, the others by AAA or unknown) 4 F-16Cs were damaged, and 3 were lost. Mix of radar and IR SAMs, one to AAA. But... The GR.1 had 1 damaged and 9 lost. Some were IR SAMs, some radar SAMs, some AAA, and some unknown (ground strike?). The GR.1 was flown on a lot of missions that involved low-level high speed strike. Airfield attack deep in enemy territory is not going to get you another cluster on your longevity ribbon. It may be a combination of the dangerous environment and the pilot/crew workload that made the aircraft more dangerous on the average than the other aircraft used for strike missions. It may have been flown into areas that were not softened up by other more appropriate aircraft or weapons, such as the F-117, cruise missiles, ATACMS (used to hit an SA-2 site). Or, it may be a less capable aircraft in terms of stealthiness, ECM, and IRCM. Maybe its ground attack weapons require it to expose itself to attack. Note the US attempt to make many different types of precision standoff attack weapons that can hit point and area targets. If I can lob a JSOW from 30 miles away and drop cluster munitions all over a set of parked aircraft, or put a 500 pound warhead through the door of a tactical shelter, I've got a better chance of survival than the poor guy who has to fly his aircraft right over the place 300 feet off the ground. But it's obviously out of its depth under those kinds of conditions. The new variants of the Tornado had better get a more capable weapons suite, at the very least. Either that, or we'll see more British pilots on Iraqi TV this time around. Mars wrote: > > Assuming a similar weapons load and no air to air threat how does it > compare to the F-111, F-15E, Intruder etc for getting to the target > (safely) and putting the load on target.