Riggs responds They think whole language is fine after children have mastered phonics, Hirsch doesn't but should teach basic skills, Saxon is OK, but not as good as their stuff. Date sent: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:32:04 -0800 To: arthurhu@halcyon.com From: The Riggs Institute Subject: Re: Hmmm, how do you compare ck / saxon stuff? At 03:41 PM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >Hmmm, I'm trying to figure out where you guys are in the >reading spectrum, since you do not disavow whole lanaguage. HAVE YOU READ MY POSTINGS? IF SO, I WOULD THINK THAT YOU WOULD KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION. WHOLE LANGUAGE IS NOT ALL BAD; SOME OF IT IS QUITE GOOD AND THAT IS THE PART THAT TEACHERS DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP. I TALK TO TEACHERS ALL THE TIME AND THAT IS WHY I KNOW THAT. THE LITERATURE, FOR INSTANCE, EXCEPT FOR THE IMPRESSION SERIES, MOSTLY PASSED MUSTER BY THE HIGHLY ESTEEMED RIGHTWING CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST NORMA GABLER OF TEXAS. DO THE PEOPLE ON THIS LOOP KNOW THAT? WHAT DO THEY KNOW? I THINK NOT VERY MUCH. WE BELIEVE THAT CHILDREN WHO ARE TAUGHT ENOUGH PHONICS SOON ENOUGH (WE USE 4 WEEKS TOTAL TO TEACH IT AND HANDWRITING AND A LOT OF COGNITIVE DEVELOPMENT BUT YOU MAY NOT KNOW THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT) CAN READ ANYTHING. I HAVE SAID A HALF DOZEN TIMES THAT WE CARRY THE HIRCH CURRICULUM IN OUR CATALOG. I ONLY CARRY THAT WHICH I APPROVE. HIRSCH DOES NOT TEACH BASIC SKILLS; HE THINKS THE KIDS ALREADY KNOW THEM BUT, OF COURSE, HE IS WRONG ABOUT THAT AND HE'S STARTING TO KNOW IT. WHY DON'T YOU READ MY WEB SITE AND FIND OUT WHAT WE'RE ABOUT. HIRSCH WOULD BE THE MOST FORTUNATE PERSON IN THE WORLD IF THE KIDS HE'S TRYING TO TEACH HAD OUR KINDS OF SKILLS WITH WHICH TO LEARN IT. WE DON'T COMPARE TO HIS STUFF; WE COMPLEMENT IT. I LIKE MATCH U SEE BETTER THAN SAXON BUT SAXON IS STILL GOOD. JOHN SAXON AND I BOTH KNOW/KNEW THE SAME THINGS ABOUT THE PUBLISHING WORLD TAKING OVER THE SCHOOLS AND THE STATE GOVERNMENTS LETTING THEM DO IT. THIS LIST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A CLUE IMHO. I CAN'T WASTE ANY MORE TIME ON THEM. > >How does your stuff compare with Hirsh/ck concepts, and >the saxon line of thinking? > > >-- >+- Views do not reflect any other organization or group--------------+ >Arthur Hu Join my diversity mailing list or >arthurhu@halcyon.com Check index and articles on web: >Kirkland WA http://www.leconsulting.com/arthurhu/ > > Myrna McCulloch, Director, The Riggs Institute 4185 S.W. 102nd Avenue, Beaverton, Oregon, 97005 503-646-9459 fax 503-644-5191 http://www.riggsinst.org [100+ pages and two listservs] "An Equal and OPTIMAL Educational Opportunity Through Multi-Sensory Language Arts" Now linked to by: http://www.indiana.edu/~eric_rec/ieo/bibs/phonics.html I can't read the binary attachment, or at least I don't know what the format is. It's probably just as easy to add a link to the page in question if it's already on your site. > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:10:16 -0800 > To: arthurhu@halcyon.com > From: The Riggs Institute > Subject: Re: Corrections on Riggs data on your pages please > > Maybe you have a place under ed reform or something where you could stick > this one-page attachment. This is why everything is the way it is -- a > huge comedy of errors, comedy yes but not to the people who are the > victims. Just think; what if your kid could have gotten a teacher who knew > how to make him into a veritable little genius. Thanks again! :-)) > > > > At 04:15 AM 1/15/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Hmm, that's not too far off, but I'll just paste this under your > >entry. > > > >This is what I had > >Hmm, that's not too far off, but I'll just paste this under your > >entry. > > > >Oregon based institute pushes sophisticated phonics instruction way > >beyond what is normally taught, but also believes that whole language > >would be ok if they got this phonics first. Does not agree with all > >reform opposition. > > > >If you ask me, considering that teachers are scared to even > >teach the rudimentary phonics we are all familiar with, the chance > >that they'll do the system you advocate is next to nill except for > >very dedicated teachers and parents, but good luck in selling > >this system, I suspect that you are correct. > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:43:58 -0800 > >> To: arthurhu@halcyon.com > >> From: The Riggs Institute > >> Subject: Corrections on Riggs data on your pages please > > > >> > >> I wonder if you could change what you have on the Riggs Institute > >> slightly to bring it into compliance with what is really true. > >> > > > >> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:43:58 -0800 > >> To: arthurhu@halcyon.com > >> From: The Riggs Institute > >> Subject: Corrections on Riggs data on your pages please > > > >> > >> I wonder if you could change what you have on the Riggs Institute slightly > >> to bring it into compliance with what is really true. > >> > >> We say parts of whole language programs, including better quality > >> literature, is OK AFTER kids learn phonics, spelling and handwriting. We > >> do agree with reform opposition to purist whole language programs which > >> eliminate basic skills. On Hirsch, we say his stuff would work better if > >> students had better basic skills. > >> > >> We say Saxon "phonics" program is OK but not as good as ours. We don't > >> do math which is Saxon's mainstay so people might be really confused here. > >> > >> Our web site is back to the original after our server move: > >> http://www.riggsinst.org (our domain name) > >> > >> Thank you! > >> Myrna McCulloch, Director, The Riggs Institute > >> 4185 S.W. 102nd Avenue, Beaverton, Oregon, 97005 > >> 503-646-9459 fax 503-644-5191 > >> http://www.riggsinst.org [100+ pages and two listservs] > >> > >> "An Equal and OPTIMAL Educational Opportunity Through > >> Multi-Sensory Language Arts" > >> > >> Now linked to by: http://www.indiana.edu/~eric_rec/ieo/bibs/phonics.html > >> > >+- Views do not reflect any other organization or group--------------+ > >Arthur Hu Check out collecting toys page Hot Wheels, JL > >arthurhu@halcyon.com Matchbox McD BK toys Thomas Tank Engine > >email to join my toy mailing list > >Kirkland WA 98034 http://www.halcyon.com/arthurhu/collect.htm > > > > > > >If you ask me, considering that teachers are scared to even >teach the rudimentary phonics we are all familiar with, the chance >that they'll do the system you advocate is next to nill except for >very dedicated teachers and parents, but good luck in selling >this system, I suspect that you are correct. Oh, we have lots of them doing it and loving it already except where they are prevented by members of the IRA and NCTE who just really work for the big publishers. Thanks.