\doc\web\97\09\germ1.txt Part II From: "Bob&Barbara Tennison" To: Subject: German Apprenticeship Programs #2 Date sent: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 19:09:04 -0800 They come from a tradition that allows them to be more comfortable with tracking than are we. They value their traditions and stability. The German apprenticeship system is also pervasive. All business and self-employed person are required to help pay for administering it. Jeanne said: >You bet I'm interested! I'll print them as they come through. Something >similar happened in Texas (a mayor's task force), and the following web >addresses highlight the jaunt. They think they can avoid the pitfalls of the >German system! Okay, I'll print the remainder of the document in installments to keep them from being overlong. consider the previous post as installment #1 since that was the introduction to the article. APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS IN GERMANY By Bruce Adams President, Oregon Education Association December/January 1994 Is the German System Better Than Ours? That depends on what you value. Do you value a well-ordered society where everyone has a place, where workers are well-trained and training is well defined? Where no one can open a small business without doing an apprenticeship,passing tests, and then becoming a master by passing more testes? Or, do you value a more open system that values rapid change, creativity and maybe even chaos? The German system is a reflection of their values. They value social systems that ate well-defined and stable. There have been cases where changing the requirements of an apprenticeship program has taken 10 years. It is unlikely Americans would be so patient. Apprenticeship programs by their very nature de fine how a job is done and who is going to do it. While they can be vehicles of change, they are more likely to pass on the traditional way of doing things. Is it an accident that Germany is more a society of small shops than supermarkets? Each shop represents a craft (baker, butcher, etc.) with a method of operation. Each new employee must apprentice in the method which is defined by agreement at the national level. This system fosters quality and consistency, more than creativity or innovation. It might be worth noting that one of the Germans, in comparing the German system to that of the French, viewed the French system as training more for industry and the German system as training more for crafts. Can The German System Be Transported to the U.S.A.? It is clear that the German system produces different results than our system. It is not so clear what would happen if we were to transport it here. Transporting the German system to the United States would require a major rethinking of our goals and values. The Germans have a 500-year tradition of valuing the crafts. Their respect for education and training cannot be overstated. They come from a tradition that allows them to be more comfortable with tracking than are we. They value their traditions and stability. The German apprenticeship system is also pervasive. All business and self-employed person are required to help pay for administering it. This is important because the plan will not work if only a few businesses assumed the cost while others exploited the system. German laws require apprenticeships in many fields, and businesses cooperate to enforce the system. The German system will work in the United States only if enough businesses participate. The only way to get a high level of participation by businesses from the beginning, is probably for the government to provide incentives and/or mandates for businesses to participate. This would be most effective if done nationwide. It is not clear if a single state such as Oregon could replicate the German system. We have a mobile workforce and national or international companies. If each state has a different training program, with different standards, that could present a problem as workers move from one state to another. The Europeans are concerned about this problem as they move toward the European Common Market. Will each country have to recognize the other's training certificates? ######end part 2###### Note: I was just dying to comment along the way about some of the more obvious things we are doing but I know some of you are printing the article for future use and probably didn't want my comments to interfere with the flow so I'll just give you one thought and maybe I'll do an analysis of the entire article on the web page later. Just give this some thought as you read this article. It sure puts the case for National Standards in perspective AND it gives us a lot of insight into why businesses are so "hot" to get on board the gravy train. Barbara EDUCATION CONSUMERS CLEARINGHOUSE From: "Bob&Barbara Tennison" To: "Jeanne" Subject: German Apprenticeships #5 - final Date sent: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:04:57 -0800 APPRENTICESHIPS When a young person starts an apprenticeship,he or she must be accepted by an employer who is certified to train apprentices. This is virtually the only way to obtain employment in Germany. Employers do not generally hire teenagers who are in school. They also do not generally hire young people unless they have completed an apprenticeship. There are apprenticeships in 380 occupations, including retail clerk, receptionist and other jobs for which little formal training would be required in the United States. (Bet's note: there is a retail training school in PA. It is being run a pilot school) Once accepted, the apprentice usually spends four days a week working for the employer and one day a week in school. Most apprenticeships lasts two to three years. The employer pays the apprentice about 25 percent of what a beginning worker would receive. (BET's note: No wonder they don't want these kids in school two days a week and what employer wouldn't love to have an apprentice for two or three years at 25% the adult rate of pay?) Each occupation has its own set of standards which defines what apprentices will be required to learn. A learning center is available to help meet the standards. This is particularly helpful for very small employers who may not be able to met all standards at the worksite. (note: does any of this sound even vaguely familiar to those of you outside Oregon. It's the "know and can do" standard that ALL Oregon children must meet and if they can't meet the standard, they will be given help or an alternative center. Cottage Grove High School has three alternative learning sites. One on campus and two off campus. go figure) Only people with a "maters" Certificate in the craft can train apprentices. These masters must undergo extra training an pass tests. Even though they are instructors, their social/economic standards are not the same as teachers, who have gone through the university. (note: business partnerships with business "mentors" being assigned to students and encouraged to take an active role by providing "alternative" class room instruction, in the classroom in the government school that you and I pay for. It's happening in Oregon folks.) Employers pay all expenses, including wages, training costs, testing fees, etc.. Each apprentice costs the employer an average of $17,000 U.S. dollars per year. However, since the apprentice contributes to the productivity of the employer, the average net cost is $10,500. At the end of the apprenticeship, the apprentice has no obligation to continue with the employer, nor does the employer have any obligation to hire the apprentice. Americans may think of an apprenticeship program as a potential part of our school system. In Germany, however, it is run by business and government with cooperation romlabor and is not really part of what we think of as the school system. THE DUAL SYSTEM Apprentices who leave school before completing the 12th grade must take school classes one day per week. These classes are run by the school system and support the apprenticeship by providing related subjects such as math that are related to the apprenticeship. CONCLUSIONS: It is clear that we cannot transport the German system to the United States without changes. Our culture is likely to place more value on flexibility for young people as they make their decisions. We are also unlikely to pass laws that would define standards for apprenticeships in as much detail as the German system does. The chances of us requiring all businesses and self-employed person sto pay into the system also seem remote. (note: Isn't this exactly what we are doing by allowing businesses to write the CAM standards for those six "broad" CAM strands, and didn't bubba try to convince businesses to contribute one and a half percent of their profits to help out?) We can however, take the German idea and adapt it to our system. I see two important questions. The answer to the first will determine the likelihood of apprenticeship programs becoming a significant factor in improving our society. The answer to the second will determine the type of apprenticeship program we will have. The first question is: "Will business support apprenticeships?? The German system is run by, for and of businesses who pay for the entire system and make room for virtually every German young person who is willing to participate. In fact 22 percent more apprenticeships were offered by businesses than were needed. If there is no business support, there will be no apprenticeship program in Oregon. That's the bottom line. Beyond that, there has to be wide-spread business support or our system would lack most of the strengths of the German system. This would almost certainly require laws or tax incentives that would motivate businesses to participate in great numbers. The second question is: "At what point in their schooling should students be allowed or encouraged to begin apprenticeships?" Adopting the German system of starting apprenticeships as young as 15 would require Americans to re-evaluate educational priorities. An early apprenticeship program could be a valid option for a student in danger of dropping out. We might have difficulty, however, seeing the value of the students starting an apprenticeship at such a young age. As we move into a future that will require a work force with more expertise and ability to adapt to change, it is important that we give our young people a broad education. POSTSCRIPT When I think back on my visit it is the little things I remember. Sometimes a small observation or comment was what provided an insight, or just made me stop and think. Here are three examples of exchanges I remember: * I watched German MTV and saw a typical young German being profiled. They showed his hobbies and activities and spent quite a bit of time showing his work as an apprentice. * I asked a business owner if he was satisfied witht he educational attainment of students who came to him from school to begin apprenticeships. He said he was not satisfied. Apparently, business in Germany has concerns similar to those in the U.S.. * I asked if Germany had a problem with teen pregnancy or with students dropping out. I was told that was "not allowed." #######end ##### MEMBERS OF OREGON'S DELEGATION: Mary Wendy Roberts, Commissioner, Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industry Bruce Adams, President Oregon Education Association Ben Schelellenberg, Superintendent, North Clackamas School District Vern Ryles, President, Poppers Supply Greg Teeple, Business Representative, Lobbyist International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 48 Jon Egge, Owner/Manager, MP Plumbing Company Jim Jamieson, Principal, Willamette High School, Eugene Michael Kaiel, Deputy Commissioner, Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industry Kenneth Fry, Training Director, Metro Training Trust Bea Rawls, Dean, Academic & Vocational Programs, Rogue Community Colllege Andrea Dobson, Maintenance Trainer, Tri-Met Transit District Mary Norquist, Executive Director, Business & Youth Express. ############### So there you have it, but of course we aren't going to do any of that. Barbara (BET) Bob & Barbara Tennison 78612 Halderman Rd. Cottage Grove, OR 97424-9709 Home: 541-942-0703 Website: http://www.jb.com/~btennison EDUCATION CONSUMERS CLEARINGHOUSE From: "Bob&Barbara Tennison" To: "Jeanne" Subject: German Apprenticeships #4 Date sent: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:08:01 -0800 WHAT CHANGES TUG AT THE GERMAN SYSTEM? The Germans are wrestling with some of the same questions we are dealing with in the Untied States. Is job training the major goal of education? How much time should be spent on academics? They are finding that a larger percent of their young people are going to the university. This is true even though projections are that there will not be enough jobs for all university graduates. Like their counterparts in the United States, German students see higher education as the means to achieve their goals. Since the German university system is paid for with tax dollars and students attend free, it is easy to consider it a waste of tax money to educate students beyond requirements for their specific jobs. Dr. Wilfried Prewo, chief executive of the Chamber of Industry and Commerce in Hanover, wrote in the Wall Street Journal: "Many jobs, in fact, do not call for a costly college education. The American pro-college bent often yields over-qualified and directionless people: An otherwise unemployed biologist works as a chemistry lab assistant. In Germany, a lab assistant is a person trained as such. There's no wasteful academic detour." The Germans have been experimenting with the "Comprehensive High School." This educational innovation seems to be a move toward what we do in the United States! Students of varying academic abilities are admitted. Apprenticeships are postponed. Efforts are made to make school a more human experience even for the less academically successful. Vocational training and planning for finding a place in the work force is emphasized more than in an American High School, however. Since this is an experimental program, it is far from clear what the future is for the comprehensive high school. Another debate the German system raises is how much time apprentices should spend going to school. Teachers generally favor changing the program to require apprentices to attend school two days rather than one day per week. Employers, however, resist lengthening the school requirement because they want the apprentices on the job. GERMAN EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM TRACKING All German students attend neighborhood schools until the 4th grade. The 5th and 6th grades are spend in a transition school where teachers evaluate the students. At the end of the 6th grade, teachers recommend each student to one of three tracks. One track aims toward the university. Another track aims at an apprenticeship at 9th or 10th grade. The middle track aims at an apprenticeship sometime after the 10th grade and/or more advance technical training. Each of these tracks is a separate school. If parents do not agree with the teachers' recommendations, they may place the child in whatever school they prefer. The child then has a year to succeed in the school or the child will be placed in the school recommended by the teachers. (BET's note: we have something similar to this in our 21st Century School law....students are "benchmarked" at grades 3, 5, 8, and 10 to check their progress in meeting the requirements for the CIM. If students are not making progress they may attend an alternative school, morning school, afternoon school or Saturday school. If the student is still not making progress, the student may attend any school that is willing to accept him/her. Students have one year to show improvement on the "benchmarks." If they are still not making progress, the state has the right to recommend what school/program is best for the student, or the state may provide the student with "shelter." In Oregon, by law, the state, not the parent, is responsible for the basic needs of the child, such as "health," "nutrition," "social services," and "shelter.") The following is the German Educational System. Imagine a pyramid and follow from top to bottom, Adult Education Special Technical Schools & University Training Apprenticeships (Dual Training) University Track Lower Track Middle Track Students Evaluated for Tracking (grades 5-6) Primary Schools (Grades 1- 4) ____________________________________________ CERTIFICATES When a student leaves school to go to an apprenticeship or the university, the student receives a school-leaving certificate which includes information about which school has been attended. #####end part 4######### BET Bob & Barbara Tennison 78612 Halderman Rd. Cottage Grove, OR 97424-9709 Home: 541-942-0703 Website: http://www.jb.com/~btennison EDUCATION CONSUMERS CLEARINGHOUSE