\doc\web\97\06\girls.txt Date sent: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:19:41 -0700 From: Arthur Hu Send reply to: arthurhu@halcyon.com Copies to: arthurhu@halcyon.com Subject: Girls Like Us - Are Asian Parents Screw Up or Right? OK, who saw the POV documentary on PBS last night? On the plus side, even the girls who got pregnant turned out OK, the white girl got married, the black girl is working full time at kentucky fried chicken. What strikes me is that even though the filmmakers said they weren't being judgemental, the only family they seemed to attack as having the parents from hell and screwed up values was Anna, the Vietnamese girl. Her parents won't let her date even in junior year, she can't call or take calls from guys and spends all of their time on homework instead of running around town with her friends. Even the guy the local station got to make comments said that Anna was ashamed of her strict parents. Um, excuse me, earth to space cadets. Anna is the girl who goes to the excellent magnet school who is in the half didn't get pregant, and will go to Brandeis, mostly likely on a nearly full scholarship given her parent's income and class, and she's likely the only one that will end up with a new 4 bedroom house, new Dodge Caravan, be making $45-$60,000 and married to a guy that makes even more, living in affluent suburbs. Does anybody out there think that working your brains out and not having sex has anything to do with why Anna is going her way and the black girl is working at KFC living in her grandmother's house? Isn't this a microcosm of the real reason blacks as a group are still behind while the Asians are busily working their way up the ladder even if they haven't all caught up with the whites yet? OK Asians, is Anna just a stereotype, or did YOU have strict parents from hell too. If you could trade your childhood with that of an urban black teenager with parents who took drugs, white trash, or the nice catholic girl, would you do it? OK Blacks, if YOU could trade childhoods with Asians with strict parents from hell who force fed you into going to Harvard and never dating until marriage, would you? If you could trade teen pregnancy statistics and test scores with Asians, would you be willing to pay the price of parents from hell?? If this is the price for racial equality, would you rather keep your low test scores and high teen pregnancy rates? which is evidently what most blacks, though not all blacks chose these days. Again, though everybody hates me for it, I say that if blacks were willing to adopt Asian culture, they could and sometimes DO get test scores just as high, and get pregnant just as infrequently, but they just don't chose to do so. Does racism explain the difference in outcome between the black girl (ok, her friend went to college, but not as good a college as Anna) and the vietnamese girl? Is Anna the one with the screwed up life? Or is it the other girls who the filmmakers so non-judgementally all came out so beautifully? Do all Americans think it's the Asians who are screwed up, and would rather "have a life" than spend all their energy on getting the best tests scores and incomes? Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: "Monica I. Harris" Date: 1997/07/16 Message-Id: <33CCF3D1.D723CE92@friar.seanet.com> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american [More Headers] When you refer to different people here, don't forget to distinguish who is American! Capital "A" please. Do Asians still work in America to send money back "home" to relatives to improve their quality of life? oo Arthur Hu wrote: > Check out pathfinder's People Site: > > http://www.pathfinder.com/people/sp/girlslikeus/now.html > > They profile a black, Asian, and a couple of other teen age > girls. > > Guess which one has strict parents and ends up going to > Brandeis instead of having a baby? > > Why is it such a big secret that Asians have the lowest > rates of teen and unwed pregnancy and single parenthood > when everybody plasters the headlines that blacks are > higher than whites? Is it such a terrible thing to do > what you're supposed to do and not get pregnant because > you made a conscious decision to do the right thing? Previous | Next | Results | View Thread | Author Profile | Post Message | Post Reply | Send Email Copyright © 1995-97 Deja News, Inc. All rights reserved. Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:47:45 -0700 From: "Monica I. Harris" Organization: Jalamich Company of America To: arthurhu@halcyon.com Newsgroups: alt.discrimination, soc.culture.asian.american, soc.culture.african.american, seattle.politics, ba.politics, alt.activism, soc.culture.mexican.american, misc.immigration.usa, alt.politics.immigration References: 1 Mr. Hu, You have just demonstrated how unabashed you are to tear down any accomplishments by Americans. You will not even acknowledge that Asians in general, of course, have already over-populated Asia and now are starting to over-populate America. That is why you continue to perpetuate the racism that you do. If the rest of the American people, which is the minority compared to asians on planet Earth, are in your mind's eye inferior to asians. Therefore you see justification in kicking the rest of America's young from the nest, so to speak. You and others like you? What are you? Americans? Not! Here to share in the pie? You behave more like you steal it out of the mouths of America's youth. I see Americans working to elevate families in a civilized manner. Your issues cast no value with the American goal to heal and carry on into the next millennium. What will you do if you discover that the seaweed or some other exotic asian food has given you a disease that puts holes in your brain. Shall America cast you out!? Worthless?! Grateful?! Loving?! Caring?! Generous with all fellow Americans?! Which description would you use for yourself as a productive oriented American as you say you are? Now, can you share some of the American currency that you have so effectually retained in Asian cities within America's cities. A few more American families will be able to stay together to raise the American family standard of living. Arthur Hu wrote: > It is my position that in both areas of academic ability and > sexual activity that 1) blacks perform far worse than Asian > with respect to high academic performance and low levels of > sexual activity and teen pregnancy and 2) there is evidence that > under special conditions, blacks at the Barclay school in > Baltimore demonstrate that poor black children can perform at > levels equal to or better than Asians and with the Best Friends > program in DC, black girls can remain un-pregnant at levels > equal to exceeding Asians. The trick is why blacks as a group > can't or won't perform at the same levels as small groups in special > programs. > > Ththers to do the same, even with their > poorer risk factors, you're still going to be stuck with the > stereotype of poor inner city girls making a career of welfare > and unwed motherhood being largely true. > > Article 4 of 16 Text Only Help Previous Article Next Article Current Results View Thread Post Message Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: Jim Tsou Date: 1997/07/18 Message-Id: <33CFF329.7E2F@earthlink.net> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american [More Headers] Monica I. Harris wrote: > > When you refer to different people here, don't forget to distinguish who > is American! > Capital "A" please. He didn't distinguish the different people in the story. But it's obvious it was about a black girl, an Asian girl and two regular American girls. > Do Asians still work in America to send money back "home" to relatives > to improve their quality of life? I don't know about other Asians, but we don't send money back home, but we bring our relatives here to America to improve their quality of life. Previous | Next | Results | View Thread | Author Profile | Post Message | Post Reply | Send Email Copyright © 1995-97 Deja News, Inc. All rights reserved. Article 5 of 16 Text Only Help Previous Article Next Article Current Results View Thread Post Message Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: "Marietta E. Cameron" Date: 1997/07/19 Message-Id: <33D0E2BD.1530@cis.uab.edu> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american [More Headers] Jim Tsou wrote: > He didn't distinguish the different people in the story. But it's > obvious it was about a black girl, an Asian girl and two regular > American girls. So the black girl is not a regular American girl??? > I don't know about other Asians, but we don't send money back home, > but we bring our relatives here to America to improve their quality > of life. I was wondering what that question had to do with anything. I have some friends who are Asians who think their respective countries are wonderful and others who refuse to return? What's the point? As far as Mr. Hu's racism, please...... Asian women have their own problems to deal with just like women from different backgrounds. When I was pregnant, it was interesting to listen to some of my Asian friends trying to persuade me to have an abortion (right along with some of my white friends). No value judgement here. Just that people make different choices for different reasons. I repeat this, as I have repeat this over and over and over again...... Fornication is the sin. Choosing to keep a child is not the sin. It is silly to continue to compare the races on out-of-wedlock births and trying to make some moral conclusion.....Yes, that is what most are trying to do here.....Mr. Hu (and others) I say to you unless you all were virgins on your wedding nights you don't have anything to say to any single parent who chose to keep and raise a child. --Marietta Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: Jim Tsou Date: 1997/07/18 Message-Id: <33CFF002.5101@earthlink.net> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american [More Headers] Arthur Hu wrote: > Why is it such a big secret that Asians have the lowest > rates of teen and unwed pregnancy and single parenthood > when everybody plasters the headlines that blacks are > higher than whites? Is it such a terrible thing to do > what you're supposed to do and not get pregnant because > you made a conscious decision to do the right thing? Because being stupid is cool. Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: "Monica I. Harris" Date: 1997/07/21 Message-Id: <33D38976.F099388D@friar.seanet.com> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american [More Headers] Only Americans know that stupid is not cool. I love my country and I will die for it. Now, that's cool! Jim Tsou wrote: Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: Jesse J Handy Date: 1997/07/18 Message-Id: Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american [More Headers] On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Arthur Hu wrote: > Check out pathfinder's People Site: > > http://www.pathfinder.com/people/sp/girlslikeus/now.html > > They profile a black, Asian, and a couple of other teen age > girls. > > Guess which one has strict parents and ends up going to > Brandeis instead of having a baby? > > Why is it such a big secret that Asians have the lowest > rates of teen and unwed pregnancy and single parenthood > when everybody plasters the headlines that blacks are > higher than whites? Is it such a terrible thing to do > what you're supposed to do and not get pregnant because > you made a conscious decision to do the right thing? > Rather than looking at it as a black/white/Asian issue, why not look at several variables that could also explain your stats. 1. Environment: Compare blacks/whites/ and Asians in the cities to their suburban counterparts. 2. Family structure: Compare single parent households to girls from two parent households. 3.Religion: is there a correlation between one's religious affiliation and her odds of becoming pregnant. And Finally, Individual psychaitric background: Look at all teen mother's psychological make up and look for simularities and differences. Also one needs to consider the size of the group being analyzied. The percentage of girls who get pregnant should be compared to those who don't and we should have an acceptable margain of error. I grew up in the inner city with both a mother and father and neither of my sisters wound up pregnant.> Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: Arthur Hu Date: 1997/07/18 Message-Id: <33CFB7AA.1257@halcyon.com> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.immigration [More Headers] It is my position that in both areas of academic ability and sexual activity that 1) blacks perform far worse than Asian with respect to high academic performance and low levels of sexual activity and teen pregnancy and 2) there is evidence that under special conditions, blacks at the Barclay school in Baltimore demonstrate that poor black children can perform at levels equal to or better than Asians and with the Best Friends program in DC, black girls can remain un-pregnant at levels equal to exceeding Asians. The trick is why blacks as a group can't or won't perform at the same levels as small groups in special programs. The problem is that a) blacks are unwilling to acknowledge that racial inferiority is real and a problem by insisting that test scores and IQ scores are biased an invalid and b) unwilling to address the problems by using the same tactics as Asians, namely working smarter, harder, and delaying sexual activity and immediate gratification, instead relying on racial and political based interventions which have absolutely no effect on redressing disparity in grades, test scores or pregnancy rates. As long as under-minorities put civil rights ahead of individual achievment, they are doomed to permanent inferiority. The only reason Asians are able to largely overcome discrimination, which still exists, is by performing at levels better than whites. As long as blacks under-perform compared to whites, they will not be able to achieve even the illusion of parity without racial preferences. The fact that some inner city girls don't get pregnant is great, but until you can get the others to do the same, even with their poorer risk factors, you're still going to be stuck with the stereotype of poor inner city girls making a career of welfare and unwed motherhood being largely true. When blacks can demonstrate lower rates of crime and teen pregnancy, and higher grades and test scores than whites, the stereotypes will take care of themselves. If you are telling me that such statistics are impossible to achieve, then I will tell you that racial equality is just as impossible. Most black programs are based achieving equity by quotas in numbers of bodies, which is easily accomplished by government, they do NOT judge success by grades, tests scores, and actual outcomes. THAT is the problem with the current civil rights movement which is judged by actions, not results. > Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:01:08 -0500 (CDT) > From: Jesse J Handy > To: Arthur Hu > Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: Lon Levy <"levy"@[a]execpc.com> Date: 1997/07/20 Message-Id: <5qs7ri$bp8@newsops.execpc.com> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.immigration [More Headers] Arthur Hu wrote: > > It is my position that in both areas of academic ability and > sexual activity that 1) blacks perform far worse than Asian > with respect to high academic performance and low levels of > sexual activity and teen pregnancy and 2) there is evidence that > under special conditions, blacks at the Barclay school in > Baltimore demonstrate that poor black children can perform at > levels equal to or better than Asians and with the Best Friends > program in DC, black girls can remain un-pregnant at levels > equal to exceeding Asians. The trick is why blacks as a group > can't or won't perform at the same levels as small groups in special > programs. > > The problem is that a) blacks are unwilling to acknowledge that > racial inferiority is real and a problem by insisting that > test scores and IQ scores are biased an invalid While much of what you write here is accurate, this point is not. IQ tests, by definition, provide a statistical reference to linguistic and mathematical intelligence within a population. By definition, this reference has no validity when comparing groups or when comparing an individual's scores to those of another group. > and b) unwilling to > address the problems by using the same tactics as Asians, namely > working smarter, harder, and delaying sexual activity and > immediate gratification, instead relying on racial and political > based interventions which have absolutely no effect on > redressing disparity in grades, test scores or pregnancy rates. > > As long as under-minorities put civil rights ahead of individual > achievment, they are doomed to permanent inferiority. This is, IMHO, the second biggest challenge facing the black community. The biggest challenge is immigration, which is disproportionately displacing American black workers. > The only > reason Asians are able to largely overcome discrimination, which > still exists, is by performing at levels better than whites. As > long as blacks under-perform compared to whites, they will not > be able to achieve even the illusion of parity without racial > preferences. > > The fact that some inner city girls don't get pregnant is great, > but until you can get the others to do the same, even with their > poorer risk factors, you're still going to be stuck with the > stereotype of poor inner city girls making a career of welfare > and unwed motherhood being largely true. > > When blacks can demonstrate lower rates of crime and teen pregnancy, > and higher grades and test scores than whites, the stereotypes > will take care of themselves. If you are telling me that such > statistics are impossible to achieve, then I will tell you that > racial equality is just as impossible. Most black programs are > based achieving equity by quotas in numbers of bodies, which is > easily accomplished by government, they do NOT judge success by > grades, tests scores, and actual outcomes. THAT is the problem > with the current civil rights movement which is judged by actions, > not results. An unfortunate situation. Well said. Regards, Lon. Article 11 of 16 Text Only Help Previous Article Next Article Current Results View Thread Post Message Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: "Monica I. Harris" Date: 1997/07/21 Message-Id: <33D45790.6766BCE4@friar.seanet.com> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.immigration [More Headers] Mr. Hu, You have just demonstrated how unabashed you are to tear down any accomplishments by Americans. You will not even acknowledge that Asians in general, of course, have already over-populated Asia and now are starting to over-populate America. That is why you continue to perpetuate the racism that you do. If the rest of the American people, which is the minority compared to asians on planet Earth, are in your mind's eye inferior to asians. Therefore you see justification in kicking the rest of America's young from the nest, so to speak. You and others like you? What are you? Americans? Not! Here to share in the pie? You behave more like you steal it out of the mouths of America's youth. I see Americans working to elevate families in a civilized manner. Your issues cast no value with the American goal to heal and carry on into the next millennium. What will you do if you discover that the seaweed or some other exotic asian food has given you a disease that puts holes in your brain. Shall America cast you out!? Worthless?! Grateful?! Loving?! Caring?! Generous with all fellow Americans?! Which description would you use for yourself as a productive oriented American as you say you are? Now, can you share some of the American currency that you have so effectually retained in Asian cities within America's cities. A few more American families will be able to stay together to raise the American family standard of living. Arthur Hu wrote: > It is my position that in both areas of academic ability and > sexual activity that 1) blacks perform far worse than Asian > with respect to high academic performance and low levels of > sexual activity and teen pregnancy and 2) there is evidence that > under special conditions, blacks at the Barclay school in Article 12 of 16 Text Only Help Previous Article Next Article Current Results View Thread Post Message Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: Jim Tsou Date: 1997/07/22 Message-Id: <33D52879.4061@earthlink.net> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.immigration [More Headers] Monica I. Harris wrote: > Mr. Hu, > > You have just demonstrated how unabashed you are to tear down any > accomplishments by Americans. You will not even acknowledge that Asians > in general, of course, have already over-populated Asia and now are > starting to over-populate America. There's still a long way to go until we match the white over-population of America. > That is why you continue to > perpetuate the racism that you do. If the rest of the American people, > which is the minority compared to asians on planet Earth, are in your > mind's eye inferior to asians. Therefore you see justification in > kicking the rest of America's young from the nest, so to speak. They seem to do an excellent job on their own. One more high school drop out means one less competitor for us. > You and > others like you? What are you? Americans? Not! We don't want to be more like you. In time you will be more like us. > Here to share in the > pie? You behave more like you steal it out of the mouths of America's > youth. Why waste it on those who can't even eat what's in their mouths? > I see Americans working to elevate families in a civilized > manner. Do you mean single parent families? > Your issues cast no value with the American goal to heal and > carry on into the next millennium. What will you do if you discover > that the seaweed or some other exotic asian food has given you a disease > that puts holes in your brain. Shall America cast you out!? Just imagine what he'd be without a hole in the head. > Worthless?! Grateful?! Loving?! Caring?! Generous with all fellow > Americans?! Which description would you use for yourself as a > productive oriented American as you say you are? Now, can you share > some of the American currency that you have so effectually retained in > Asian cities within America's cities. A few more American families will > be able to stay together to raise the American family standard of > living. Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: holman Date: 1997/07/21 Message-Id: <33D39046.24@cudenver.edu> Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,seattle.politics,ba.politics,alt.activism,soc.culture.mexican.american,misc.immigration.usa,alt.politics.immigration [More Headers] Arthur Hu wrote: > > It is my position that rest deleted - Kaiju took care of this . . . However it is my position that you should go away. alice Article 14 of 16 Text Only Help Previous Article Next Article Current Results View Thread Post Message Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: laurent@mass-usr.com Date: 1997/07/21 Message-Id: <5r0e5e$kkb$1@orthanc.reference.com> Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american [More Headers] On Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:37:40 -0600, holman wrote: > Arthur Hu wrote: > > > > It is my position that > alice: > rest deleted - Kaiju took care of this . . . > > However it is my position that you should go away. > > alice alice, Arthur Hu is the asian answer to BARD, a real net.nuisance who is obsessed with asian supremacy. A real loser who cannot walk and chew bubble gum at the same type, a face populated by big, red, pus filled zits, he spends his entire time concocting racial theories while nibbling on boggers from his nose... A real disgusting little chinese fellow! Imagine being married to him, damn! Aly Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: RDRake2@ix.netcom.com Date: 1997/07/23 Message-Id: <869641385.28830@dejanews.com> Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american [More Headers] Article Segment 1 of 2 (Get All 2 Segments) In article <33cfe6fa.179732278@news.interglobe.net>, arthurhu@halcyon.com (Arthur Hu) wrote: [ snip ] Hi, Arthur. Remember me? We worked at the same company about four or five years ago. Does it ever bother you that you post these tomes about the superiority of Asian ability and responsibility, when you are such a poor example of both? Didn't it occur to you that someone who had seen your code would eventually happen across one of these little gems, and point out the irony? Oh, well. Enough of that. Let's proceed. When I participated in a code review, your code was too much of a mess to be worth reviewing line by line. I'm glad your English is better than your c. >It is my position that There might be someone who cares what your position is, but it's a poor way to begin any sort of logical thought process. >in both areas of academic ability and sexual activity that Academic performance and sexual activity are not related. That's sloppy thinking. >1) blacks perform far worse than Asian >with respect to high academic performance and low levels of >sexual activity and teen pregnancy and "Blacks perform far worse than Asian with respect to high academic performance..." Your grammar is a mess, while you claim intellectual superiority. Does that bother you? >2) there is evidence that >under special conditions, blacks at the Barclay school in >Baltimore demonstrate that poor black children can perform at >levels equal to or better than Asians Are you *really* comparing poor black children with the Asian population as a whole? And expecting to get away with it? >and with the Best Friends >program in DC, black girls can remain un-pregnant at levels >equal to exceeding Asians. Which exceeding Asians would that be? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) Is "remain un-pregnant" the best you can do? Are you trying to say that all black girls will just become pregnant without some sort of social program to help them remain un-pregnant? Just what percentage of black teenage girls do you think become pregnant? >The trick is why blacks as a group >can't or won't perform at the same levels as small groups in special >programs. Why do you say "can't or won't," when the most likely explanation for whatever small percentage of your accusations are true, is that they "don't?" >The problem is that a) blacks are unwilling to acknowledge that >racial inferiority is real and a problem Not just blacks, Arthur. Plenty of white people are unwilling to acknowledge that as well. If it comes to inferiority, I've never seen worse code than yours. And I've seen some really bad code. >by insisting that test scores and IQ scores are biased an invalid Have you ever actually read one of the studies investigating bias in IQ tests? Or SAT's? They are designed to test the abillity to do well in school, and not intelligence. They leave out all sorts of important elements of intelligence, like creativity. You should read about it. Very interesting stuff. >and b) unwilling to address the problems That would be the problems that you said blacks were unwilling to acknowledge? So you think people should address problems that they don't acknowledge? Or did you just toss that in for effect? >by using the same tactics as Asians, namely >working smarter, harder, and delaying sexual activity and >immediate gratification, instead relying on racial and political >based interventions which have absolutely no effect on >redressing disparity in grades, test scores or pregnancy rates. Interesting comment, coming from a man who gets jobs based on the performance of his brothers, and loses them based on his own performance. >As long as under-minorities "Under-minorities?" Where in the world did you get that term? >put civil rights ahead of individual achievment, I can't believe I'm hearing this from *you* ! Cognitive dissonance. >they are doomed to permanent inferiority. The only >reason Asians are able to largely overcome discrimination, which >still exists, is by performing at levels better than whites. *snort* Subject: Re: People: Girls Like Us From: RDRake2@ix.netcom.com Date: 1997/07/23 Message-Id: <869641385.28830@dejanews.com> Article Segment 2 of 2 (Get Previous Segment) (Get All 2 Segments) > As >long as blacks under-perform compared to whites, they will not >be able to achieve even the illusion of parity without racial >preferences. You have yet to prove that they under-perform. >The fact that some inner city girls don't get pregnant is great, >but until you can get the others to do the same, Arthur, if anyone can persuade teenage girls to remain celibate, it would be you. Thank you for posting about it, but I think you would be even more effective if you actually visited the schools. >even with their poorer risk factors, If a risk factor is poorer, wouldn't that be a good thing? The old double-negative thing - but you never got the hang of that. >you're still going to be stuck with the >stereotype of poor inner city girls making a career of welfare >and unwed motherhood being largely true. I'm not stuck with any stereotype. You are. It's not true. And when did we switch from black teenage girls to poor inner city girls, anyway? Oh, that's just like your code!! Deja vu. >When blacks can demonstrate lower rates of crime and teen pregnancy, >and higher grades and test scores than whites, the stereotypes >will take care of themselves. I suppose that the fact that black people who have never broken the law, never been pregnant, and get straight A's and high SAT scores tell you that they still are stereotyped doesn't bother you? Didn't think so. It didn't bother you when your pie charts were three pixels big, either. It's a good way to hide your problems. >If you are telling me that such >statistics are impossible to achieve, then I will tell you that >racial equality is just as impossible. Nobody's telling you that. >Most black programs are >based achieving equity by quotas in numbers of bodies, No, they're not. Don't you ever read anything? >which is easily accomplished by government, "Easily accomplished?" When was this? >they do NOT judge success by >grades, tests scores, and actual outcomes. THAT is the problem >with the current civil rights movement which is judged by actions, >not results. There's that cognitive dissonance again. Oh, and thanks for posting the url for that article. I liked the part about intelligence being inversely related to penis size. I'll bet the author still doesn't see the primary implication of that, judging by the intellectual standards set by the rest of the article. --Kris Olson (posting from her SO's account) Arthur Hu: http://www.pbs.org/cgi-bin/pov/films/1008/discuss/discuss.cgi?mode=AREA&area=Comments_on_the_film What struck me as really odd is that the Vietnamese girl is the one portrayed as the one with parents from hell. What does it say about American culture when the nonjudgemental filmmakers say it's OK to get pregnant and make a career of KFC living with grandma, but it's just plain wierd to have parents that won't let you date so that you can get into brandeis? It really ticks me off to know that Asians have the lowest, lowest rates of STD's, AIDS, sexual activity, teen and unwed pregancy, and yet this buried as as the most dangerous secret, never to be revealed to the public, and it's because of these so-called parents from hell. Look at me, a software engineer from a family that sent 7 kids to MIT and / or Stanford, not one of us a teen parent. Doesn't anybody think that maybe if we WERE a little more judgemental, we'd have more Anna's and fewer Raelenes and Lyonas, and it wouldn't be only the Asians packing the ivy leagues?