e:\doc\web\97\06\gcizek.txt
Thanks, I'll add your response to my web page, it's
my impression that this is a question that every
4th grader is expected to be able to solve, the
story says that this is the first trial, evidently
they never made an effort to check to see how real
kids fared before devising the questions. The CLAS
test was similar - it was so hard, not even the top
1% rated a "6" which was somebody that fully met
expectations. These Objective Oriented criterion
referenced tests are for the birds if you ask me.


I'm doing a little research before I formulate my
response to the article.


Where is a good listing of what a 4th grader with
an "A" grade is supposed to know, or maybe you can
give me a short inventory off of the top of your
head


addition by hand
subtraction by hand
perimeter calculation
area calculation
reading tables
cost computation given price/quant and quantify
multiplication tables
long division
conversion of 60 inches to feet by memory
reading dimensions from 3D drawings
reading 3D and 3-view drawings
reading hidden lines
deducing "zero cost" from "materials are donated"
producing essay answers to long multistep problems


What details in particular make this difficult if
I haven't pointed these out? I didn't think 4th
graders were supposed to be able to write much at
all, let alone read at anything approaching a 
newspaper.


> Date:          Thu, 14 Aug 1997 18:01:57 -0500
> From:          Gregory Cizek <gcizek@ut1.utoledo.edu>
> Subject:       Reform 4th grade math test question -Reply
> To:            arthurhu@halcyon.com


> Dear Arthur:  Thanks for your interest. 
> I looked at the question you sent to me.
>  The short answer is that it looks tough
> for a 4th grader, or a 6th grader for
> that matter.  The long answer is that it's
> difficult to really judge the question
> without knowing a lot more about the
> construction of the test it's a part of. 
> For example, it's possible that the test
> is constructed of items or tasks that are
> of increasing difficulty: some easier
> ones for low ability students; some
> moderately difficult items for middle
> ability students; and a few extremely
> tough items designed to assess high
> ability students.  The item you
> forwarded to me could simply be an
> example of the latter.  
> 
> On the other hand, if all the items in the
> test were as difficult as the one you
> sent, I'd have to say that I'm glad
> they're giving that test out there in
> Washington; it will make Ohio kids look
> a lot better by comparison.
> 
> Best wishes.... G>
> Gregory J. Cizek, PhD
> Associate Professor of Educational
> Research and Measurement
> 350 Snyder Hall
> University of Toledo
> Toledo, OH  43606-3390
> Tel:419-530-2611
> Fax:419-530-7719