\doc\web\97\01\hisptude.txt Origin of Hispanic and identity of "Spanish" and "Hispania" Date sent: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:05:43 -0600 Send reply to: race-pol@acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu From: race-pol@acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu To: arthurhu@halcyon.com Subject: RACE-POL digest 116 RACE-POL Digest 116 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Hispanitude by gonzalez@blue.usa.com ("Gonzalez, Francisco") 2) Re: RACE-POL digest 114 by "Kelly B. Keller" 3) Re: RACE-POL digest 114 by Jerry Stubben 4) Re: "Ebonics" by "Breck Daughtrey" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 16:51:55 -0500 From: gonzalez@blue.usa.com ("Gonzalez, Francisco") To: race-pol@acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu Subject: Re: Hispanitude Message-ID: Without desiring to enter into the "Hispanitude" debate, I just want to clarify the origin of the term "Hispanic": it is derived from Hispania, the name that the Romans gave to the Iberian Peninsula (modern day Spain and Portugal) after their conquest of the land (around the year 100 BC). After the collapse of the Roman Empire, a Germanic tribe, the Visigoths, moved in and created the Kingdom of Hispania (still incorporating most of Spain and Portugal). With the Arab conquest of 711, the Visigothic Kingdom was destroyed; replaced by a succession of Christian and Moslem kingdoms. Eventually Castillo became the strongest kingdom, absorbing and conquering all other states in the Iberian Peninsula except Portugal. Thus, it is wrong to use the term "Hispania" or "Hispanic" to refer to a unified ethnic, cultural, linguistic or political entity, since no such thing has existed in over 1200 years. The term Spain, obviously a corruption of "Hispania", was adopted by the Catholic Kings to reflect the fact the with their marriage and union between the Kingdoms of Castile and Aragon , MOST (but not all) of the old Roman-Visigothic "Hispania" was under one crown. Again, Portugal remained independent. There is no such thing as a "Spanish" language: the language spoken by over 300 million people worldwide is Castillian; in the State of Spain there are at least 3 major languages spoken besides Castillian! Lastly, Spanish explorers and conquistadors named modern-day Mexico Nueva Espana (New Spain) in honor of their homeland. In the 1500's, maps and scientific works, as well as many government papers, were still written in Latin. The term "Nova Hispania", as appears on maps, was just the Latinized form of the name (like Sanct Joan for San Juan; Hispaniola for La Espanola). My point is that the term Hispanic was NEVER used as a name for themselves by ANY of the peoples of the Iberian Peninsula, (the peoples of both Roman and Visigothic Hispania considered themselves either Roman or Kelt. or Carthaginian,or Goth, or Greek, etc., according to their specific ethnicity) nor by the inhabitants of the Spanish colonies of Nueva Espana (who, again considered themselves either Peninsulares-born in Spain, or criollos, or mestizos, or belonging to one of the hundreds of Native American tribes). Hispanic is a term artificially created by the US Census Bureau; just like "Asian/Pacific", and cannot supplant or replace more specific names like 'Mexican-American', or 'Puerto Rican', in any real context. Francisco J. Gonzalez gonzalez@blue.usa.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:29:22 -0800 From: "Kelly B. Keller" To: race-pol@acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu Subject: Re: RACE-POL digest 114 Message-ID: <32DC32F2.42B3@casalatina.org> Michael A. Schoenfield wrote: > (major snip) > These children only a short period of time to acquire the knowl;edge > necessary to become self-sufficient adults and by pasndering to them by > teaching lazy english is the same as stealing these children's future. > God knows that our children's future is potentially very difficult and > dangerous and they must acquire the tools necessary to successfully > competite and those tools include the queen's english. > ******************************************* what God really knows is that white supremacist cultural norms created, and uphold, the notion of "competition" - which in itself has created much of the difficulty and danger you speak of. perhaps a really novel idea would be to think about teaching "our children" the value of full self development in the realistic context of interdependence, and to work against the dangers and anti-life-affirming modes of competition. i would imagine God also knows that if anyone can be affiliated with "lazy" - especially when compared with those who don't simply *inherit* their wealth and "noble" positions in our racialized society - it's the queen. talk about lazy english... your choice of words and assumptions needs some elbow grease work. kelly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:11:07 -0600 From: Jerry Stubben To: race-pol@acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu Subject: Re: RACE-POL digest 114 Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970114221107.006c1840@exnet.iastate.edu> Mike: But do you assist the native american children with maintaining or learning their tribal language(s). Also I do not see why Americans are so afraid of learning more than one language. My eight year old grandson speaks "business" English, Spanish and maintains enough of his Ponca and Anishnabe language to understand when a tribal elder is speaking about him. Our family begins this process at birth, in terms of Tribal languages and English, his elementary school has taught him Spanish, along with a very committed Mexican-American uncle. And just last week, he said, "Granpa, I would like to learn sign language and Chinese." Boy, this seventh generation is amazing, I just hope us fifth generationers don't restrict their ability to learn... English, Ebonics, Russian, Omaha, Klingon, etc. etc. Aho Jerry At 04:06 PM 1/14/97 -0600, you wrote: >On the subject of Ebonics, I feel that I should share this story. Two >years ago, a friend approached my wife and myself to assist in >developing a school for inner-city minority (black) children. We did and >now the AGAPE Center of Academic Excellence, Inc. is a reality in >Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We are proud to have a mixture of heritages >(black, american-indian, spanish and white) to offer our students. >However, we teach only in standard busihness english because that is the >language that these children must master in order to be competative in >todays labor force. All but one of our teachers happens to be >afircan-american and they fee the same as the board does about ebonics, >i.e., that by teaching ebonics we would be stealing from our children. >These children only a short period of time to acquire the knowl;edge >necessary to become self-sufficient adults and by pasndering to them by >teaching lazy english is the same as stealing these children's future. >God knows that our children's future is potentially very difficult and >dangerous and they must acquire the tools necessary to successfully >competite and those tools include the queen's english. > >Mike S. >-- >========================================== > Michael A. Schoenfield > Michael A. Schoenfield & Associates, Ltd. > 2637 Mason Street E-Mail: maschoen@execpc.com > Madison, WI 53705-3709 Voice: (608) 238-6121 >========================================== > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:56:39 -0500 From: "Breck Daughtrey" To: Subject: Re: "Ebonics" Message-ID: <199701142249.RAA20995@gatekeeper.visi.net> Mr. Floyd Hayes wrote, in part: > Could it be that the real issue is an effort by community leaders to engage in a strategy--perhaps not completely thought out--hoping to bring in public or private funds to sustain its public schools? > funds into Oakland's schools. > > The political and ideological "debate" about the efficacy or > inefficacy of "teaching" Ebonics completely overlooks the economics > of institutional survival as, perhaps, the main or key issue. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mr. Hayes, If the Oakland school board's resolution represents a strategy for generating additional revenue, it is so subtle as to have been lost on us all. If the problems are as bad as you report, more effective means exist to draw attention to them I'm on the east coast and perhaps don't know all the issues, but I can't recall ever hearing "Institutional survival" mentioned. The board's resolution was rooted in politics,thus the ensuing debate. Breck Daughtrey ------------------------------ End of RACE-POL Digest 116 **************************